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Mortys
Oud Junkie
Posts: 163
Registered: 7-12-2009
Location: Utrecht, The Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: As happy as Oud face
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Thanx Edward,
You know some people ( specially from the eastern countries it is just a part of our culture) always try to find sth very cheap, it should cost
nothing and some donot even appreciate art. I mean how much time it gets to make such an instrument with all that one of a kind inlays? Some people
just don't realize it, how many hours would it take to make that even?
I think we have two category of instrument makers: the one who just makes it as soon and fast as possible and make a huge factory of it to earn more,
and the one who really makes it with love and passion for their work. That is big difference!
I hope that once people realize this, and that the latter is just a one man workshop, but you get well absolutely
what the money really worth is.
Quality and Art
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Beas.One
Oud Maniac
Posts: 68
Registered: 12-5-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Content
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Thank you very much, Dr. Oud for your interview video.
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siro
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 4-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: oudy
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hi mortys
i think you didnt understand what i mean
what do you mean very cheap ,who said that?
,i said nothing special for that price(6000 euro), i know the diffrence between bad and good instruments because i have grown up between musicians
and makers in iran,i think everything has its price not more not less i belive in this, many of oud makers have made ouds and passedaway, but some
of them are with us until know and their ouds and their arts will stay in the art history for ever like nahat family nariman ali alaawad manol and
someothers you can ask for their quality and artistic works and also prices( i mean these ouds todays real prices) i have a special respect for all
oud makers around the world and for musicians too,just imagine yourself if you wanted this barbat badly and you couldnt buy this instrument (because
of the unreal price)
very bad feeling for sure,how many people can pay this unreal prices?(6000 euro,)
and i know something for sure art is so far from business,as i said as you wish enjoy it,i say again everything has its price not more not less, you
are talking about art and quality,but dont forget, this site is a place to share ideas,information,and somethings else to interduce this instrument
and help people to find what they need about oud and music ,many of members here are professionals,they know the details of the art of oud making, if
you dont want to realize this,sorry
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
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Arafai has a system of bracing he developed with his father-in-law (who tught him oud making). They analyized over 150 ouds to arrive at a formula to
calculate the location and size of the braces, determined by the length of the face and volume of the body. I have played 8 different shaped and sized
ouds and barbats by Arafati and they all had perfect balance in volume across the strings. Tonal quality ranged from very good to excellent. I believe
he is one of the best makers today, his workmanship is superb and the playability and sound of his instruments is as good as it gets. His website:
http://www.oudarafati.com/
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siro
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 4-2-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: oudy
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dear richard would you please tell us about mr arafatis oud/barbat prices?
thank you
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
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Given the situation in Iran it may be difficult to communicate, but it would be best to ask him directly.
http://www.oudarafati.com/
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nasers
Oud Addict
Posts: 26
Registered: 6-7-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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On your question of good oud players in Iran, I personally like Shahram Gholami's style http://www.myspace.com/shahramgholami
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jhonaki
Oud Lover
Posts: 11
Registered: 11-23-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Subject: Oud/Barbat in Iran
Siro,
Sorry, I did not understand at all your last reply about cost of instruments, I have been seeing discussion about it often lately.
Simply but, an instrument from a Master builder is going to be expensive and there is no way to get around it. After all, you are paying for his
years of experience and special touch, his magic.
In the case of Iranian instruments, the quality is well underpriced.
I have a number of instruments from Ostad GhanbariMehr and his apprentices. They look wonderful, if you like the term art piece, that is fine but what
is important is their sound.
After all they are tools first. I would not like to see the same thing happen in Iran that happened in America, when Guitars became something you
invest in. It is very sad and show alot about the culture.
We all know the great skill and beauty the Mohamadi Brothers make but what comes first is the wonderful sound their Master Ghanbari Mehr taught them.
They instruments would be worthless without that.
Their prices are not high, be lucky you do not play the Tar. I think the real problem for us all is to be worthy of playing such wonderful
instruments.
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jhonaki
Oud Lover
Posts: 11
Registered: 11-23-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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EDIT
Siro,
SORRY, I TRIED TO EDIT MY LETTER SO IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE.
Sorry, I did not understand at all your last reply about cost of instruments, I have been seeing discussion about it often lately.
Simply but, an instrument from a Master builder is going to be expensive and there is no way to get around it. After all, you are paying for his years
of experience and special touch, his magic.
In the case of Iranian instruments, the quality is well underpriced.
I have a number of instruments from Ostad GhanbariMehr and his apprentices. They look wonderful, if you like the term art piece, that is fine but what
is important is their sound.
After all they are tools first. We use Ghanbari Mehr, not because of the collecting or beauty but because this is the best tool.
What is lately happening is people are worshipping the instrument , putting their energy into that, not what is important, the music.
I would not like to see the same thing happen in Iran that happened in America, when Guitars became something you invest in. It is very sad and show a
lot about the culture.
We all know the great skill and beauty the Mohammadi Brothers make but what comes first is the wonderful sound their Master Ghanbari Mehr taught them.
They instruments would be worthless without that.
I am sure they agree, the sound is what is first, and yes the joy of the eye follow and for that luxury, we must pay a thank you.
By the way, their prices are not high,
Here is an example of a young German maker who made a wonderful Saz, but look at the price and think about how much experience he really has with the
tradition…
http://www.vorreiter-gitarren.de/en/modelle/saz.html
Mohammadi Brothers are a real bargin in my humble opinion.
Siro, be lucky you do not play the Tar. The prices really go up!!!
I think the real problem for us all is to be worthy of playing such wonderful instruments.
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FVorreiter
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 11-5-2010
Member Is Offline
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I just wanted to drop a brief note here; recently I have heard many discussions on instruments prices. And believe me, even in North America there is
much discussion about the affordability of a guitar. I think I may be able to explain how some instrument makers (me included) make such expensive
instruments. I also wish I was able to make cheaper instruments, but it is not as easy as some may think.
I have very few machines, since I am a young maker and I have only little room and little finances to work with. All that I have is the skill in my
hands and the artistic ideas in my head (and heart).
So everything in my shop is made by hand, which takes much longer than using machines as the factories do. Now why would I make a Saz that looks like
a factory instrument? They can make it faster, and they will. So I have to do something special so that I can find a niche in the market. Which means
I have to put in more work time, and again my instrument becomes more expensive. It is a real dilemma, and I wish I could earn a living on making
cheap instruments.
Look at the positive sides: Luthiers like me put much emotion, time and art into an instrument. No factory can do this, or at least not to the same
degree. Our work is good for the instruments, and maybe in turn also good for the musicians. I know a saz player who always said to me: "Florian, I
wish every saz maker would be more expensive, because right now many saz's are cheap and of poor quality".
I also don't use the cheapest tools I can buy. I buy good tools for a reasonable price, and sometimes they are expensive. But then they help me do
great work also. And I think some musicians may feel the same about their instruments.
Florian.
Florian Vorreiter Lutherie (Official Website)
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: g'oud
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Bravo Florian,
...yes, factory instruments generally have no soul. Also, factories tend to be extremely wasteful with materials, whereas the hand luthier is much
more careful. Musicians need to understand that buying a handmade instrument is supporting the tradition - which otherwise will die.
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FVorreiter
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 11-5-2010
Member Is Offline
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Hi Edward, I just realized you must be one of Allan Beardsell's old friends. Is that right?
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: g'oud
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I've know him since the mid 70's!
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FVorreiter
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 11-5-2010
Member Is Offline
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I worked with him for a couple of years, until this spring. This world is so small, just as everybody says...
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