Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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The saga of oud #974
I want to finally put this issue to rest after doing what I could to find out what happened between both parties involved. Why I even bother, who
knows? But I did, and I am glad I did.
In the end, it does seem to boil down to one person’s word over the other person, but to be quite frank, one person has a very good reputation as an
oudmaker and good track record to do business with. Here is what I have concluded after 3 or 4 days of emails, and in some cases, lack of emails.
Sometimes no response is a big response.
Jake purchased an oud from Nazih Ghadban that he saw detailed pictures of and listened to being played over the phone prior to purchasing. He
commented that the oud had a touch of Andalusia to Mr. Ghadban and he was ready to purchase it. In fact, Jake decided to buy the oud. The oud arrived
below the standard that Jake would like for a 1650 dollar oud, and in my opinion, Jake had reason to be upset. Nevertheless, I do think some of
Jake’s actions and postings were bordering on the excessive, and also that the oud was not as bad as the picture he painted. My understanding is
that Nazih in fact offered to refund Jake his money, minus shipping costs. These costs would not have added up to $600 as Jake claimed. I have been
advised that syrianoud was going to refund Jake his money and Jake would then only have to ship the oud from Canada to California. I was advised that
this was agreed to by Nazih Ghadban. That would mean 250 dollars shipping from Lebanon to Canada plus ~100 dollars from Canada to California for a
total of ~350 dollars. Jake decided to refuse this offer and continue to retell how upset he was in receiving his oud in said condition.
As Jake was clearly not an experienced oud player, some of the members of this forum tried to assist by suggesting he have the oud appraised by
someone who was. Jake was given contact details for two expert oud teachers in his region. As far as I know, neither of these people have seen the
oud.
Brian Prunka addressed the issues of this matter in a balanced and detailed post to the forums. Jake did not post a response to Brian’s assessment
of the situation. Not a word.
Moderators, Greg and Victor, also attempted to provide balanced appraisals of the situation in private communications with Jake. Greg tells me that in
his emails to Jake, he addressed specific points in regard to several of the alleged imperfections (as Brian also did later in his post to the
forums). Greg informs me that Jake did not respond to any of the specific points he had made in regard to this instrument.
It could therefore be assumed that Jake was not really interested in listening to any points of view that, in any way, differed from his own.
Close-up photos of the claimed imperfections were made available to forum members.
Some forum members made their assessments based upon these photos alone. In my opinion, that was not reasonable. From the outset of this saga, Jake
had been urged to show the oud to an expert. If he had done so, this emotive issue may have been settled a lot earlier and perhaps more successfully.
We have seen photos of the same instrument posted by the maker, prior to shipping. None of the claimed imperfections are obvious in those photos. So
who is right in this matter? We may never be completely sure, but there are many forum members who own ouds made by Nazih Ghadban and, as far as I
know, all are very happy with what they got for their money.
There have now been two major forum incidents that have, in my view, unfairly reflected on the quality of finish of Nazih Ghadban’s ouds. It is
interesting to note that both of the complainants were absolute newbies to this instrument. Balance that against the number of experienced oud players
who are extremely happy with their Ghadban ouds and it puts this issue into better perspective. Incidentally, the previous complainant changed his
mind completely after his instrument was inspected by an experienced oud player and a well respected teacher. Both were glowing in their praise of the
instrument.
There are lessons here for oudmakers and for oud buyers.
The lesson for oud buyers is that they should not expect a hand-made instrument in the sub 4,000 dollar bracket to be finished like a factory built
guitar or like hand-made western stringed instruments that often sell for tens of thousands of dollars. Time is money and you don’t buy several
months of work for a couple of grand, even in the east. The lesson for oudmakers is that they need to maintain their finishes to a consistently high
standard when selling into a western market at western market prices.
In regards to the slander and insults sent by a former member, that has been taken care of by banning him from U2U and posting in the forums. As I
thought might happen, he re-registered with new screen names, and those names have also been banned. I did speak with him over the phone, and conveyed
to him how his contributions to the various threads on oud #974 were not helpful at all and only served to inflame an already bad situation.
In fact, NOTHING he wrote or told me has had any influence on my decision to write this post, share my thoughts on this situation, or the
resolution of this matter. He informed me that he was also receiving slanderous emails, and forwarded some of these emails to me. For those
of you who are sending these emails, I am asking you to stop them.
Ultimately, I would STILL highly recommend Nazih Ghadban for people who are looking for high quality Arabic ouds in the future. In my view, and in the
view of many others, he is an excellent oudmaker.
Finally, it is also my view that, in this case, he offered a number of reasonable options to the unsatisfied buyer, including a full refund. In the
circumstances, I do not believe he could be held to blame for the outcome.
NOTE: This post was prepared in collaboration with moderators Greg and Victor (oudman).
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paulO
Oud Junkie
Posts: 531
Registered: 9-8-2004
Location: California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Utz
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Dear Mike,
Thanks so much for summarizing the course of events. Very well done, and thanks for your patience as well.
Best regards,
paulO
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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You should lock this thread....what do you think?
This went full circle and the loop is now closed.
Lets carry on.
Thank you Mike, Greg, Victor.
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Amos
Oud Junkie
Posts: 405
Registered: 3-26-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Thank you Mike...The best way to resolve the situation. All the best to everyone.
Amos
Our music is like an ocean...
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abdulo
Oud Addict
Posts: 34
Registered: 7-5-2006
Location: New York
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Ok where is the oud now, and is it for sale ??
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Nazih Ghadban
Oud Junkie
Posts: 167
Registered: 5-25-2004
Location: Lebanon
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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the highest aim
The highest aim
Despite the bad circumstances I am living I send my best wishes to everybody in this forum hoping
This sad situation in Lebanon will end soon.
The highest aim I look forward and I intend from my deep heart when I ship an oud
Out of Lebanon is that the buyer will enjoy it the maximum and send me back his kind comment.
Why?
-Because the oversea buyer doesn't try lively, directly his oud and he already gave me his confidence,that I appreciate too much,I feel I have more
responsibility in front of his oud.
-While I haven't the same feeling when buyers come to my workshop and choose themselves their ouds. I can help them by some advices which make their
choice easier.
Thanks Mike,Greg,Victor for clearing that issue and been always with the truth side.
Salamat
Nazih
--------------------
Nazih Ghadban
Oud Researcher,Designer,Maker,Player
Rass-Baalbeck ; Bekaa ; Lebanon
Tel/Fax :00961 8 210546
Mob :00961 3 737545
http://www.oudnazihghadban.com
mailto:info@oudnazihghadban.com
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