jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Ouds, Lutes and Historical Developments
Hello everyone - before I get too far ahead of myself with postings in the Maintenace Forum I have a general question.
I am a newcomer to the world of the oud but come from a background as a researcher into early european stringed instruments as well as an amateur
maker and player of 16th and 17th C fretted instruments. While I have an interest in the oud and its music as it is today, I also am greatly
interested in how the oud has developed over the centuries and how this might specifically have influenced the design and structure of the european
lute.
The oud, of course, is the direct ancestor of the lute but unlike the lute, which enjoyed a period of popularity from about the 13th to mid 18th C,
the oud continues to maintain its position today, as it has in the past, as an instrument central to the musical culture of the middle east.
Nevertheless, the lute - being on a branch of the oud family tree - may have something to teach us today about the way ouds may have been designed and
constructed in the past.
The problem with research into early instruments in Europe is the general lack of surviving detailed information. As far as the lute is concerned, no
instruments survive prior to about the year 1500 and very few that have survived are in original condition having been modified over time to meet the
demands of changing musical tastes. With corresponding lack of written information about the lute prior to 1500 reconstructions of early lutes of that
time can only be speculative projects at best.
I suspect that the same situation applies also to the oud but as I do not read or speak any Arabic languages it is difficult for me to investigate
this field or to know how much historical research into the oud has already been undertaken and published to date. I am generally ignorant about how
many early oud's survive today or where they are located. I have some partial translations of early Arabic texts about the oud and a few pictures but
that's about it! No doubt there will be more information on this general topic in past forum postings - but I haven't got there yet! So, in the
meantime, all information and comments are welcome.
For my part, I shall continue with postings in the Maintenance Forum that will highlight similarities of detail that I am finding between ouds and
lutes that might be of some relevance to those interested in exploring the early ouds.
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stringmanca
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 8-4-2005
Location: Martinez, CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud Moud
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You might find this thread of interest:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=3041
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al-Halabi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 364
Registered: 6-8-2005
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Mood: No Mood
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Check out this thread too:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=2961#pid193...
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Many thanks for bringing to my attention these two very informative and interesting threads. They have helped me get a better basic, initial
understanding about the oud historically. A good start but lots of reading ahead (happily!).
I am astonished to learn that few instruments (if any) survive prior to the late 19th C. As a consequence I now feel a little nervous about my current
oud restoration project posted in the Maintenance Forum. The Egyptian oud that I own is in a fairly poor state of preservation and may not be the
finest oud ever made but with an estimated age of 50 to 85 years of age for the belly (possibly more for the body?), it seems to me that it may be in
the category requiring conservation in its current state rather than trying to attempt to restore it to playing condition. At the present time, I am
just recording and posting details about the oud and trying to draw some historical information from the exercise.
Attempting to restore the instrument to playing condition may result in some of the original information inherent in the oud - as it now is - being
lost forever, possibly important information for future researchers?
Now if old, beat up, ouds are 'ten a penny' in the bazaars in the middle east then perhaps I should not be too concerned about proceeding with
restoration but I would appreciate the views of others on this matter. Should I preserve the oud as it now is and post as much detail about it for the
information of others on this site and for posterity or should I go ahead with careful, recorded restoration - posting the step by step (hopefully
interesting) procedures as I progress? Bear in mind that the final outcome of a full restoration may not be a particularly fine sounding instrument
(to modern ears!) anyway.
Your comments would be appreciated.
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billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
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Mood: what?
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i'm sure you're familiar with the illustrations from the "cantigas de santa maria" but if not, they could be a help with the oud's exterior. as for
what went on inside the oud ...
... might be helpful if you post some photos of the oud you're restoring - to include (if there is one) the luthier's sticker. if it's a cheapie,
anything you do might be something of an improvement - if it's rare, you'll find no end of people to help you restore it.
regards - bill
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Thanks Bill - I have three threads on the go at the moment in the Oud Projects Forum - "Restoration of an Egyptian Oud - Partt 1", "Traditional Oud
Barring", and "Translation of 'Makers' Label". There you will find images of the oud that I have posted and more to come.
I had hoped that there would be extant early ouds available so that detailed comparisons might be made between them and lutes in order to discover the
common ground in the structure of the instruments and how they were made - to work backwards in history so to speak. Without the solid evidence that
might be gleaned through a detailed examination of the instruments themselves, the exercise tends to become one of speculation (not a bad thing in
itself though). However, with the oldest ouds dating back only to the late 19th C the scope of this exercise is limited. I only have my oud to work
with and experience in researching and building lutes. I have no idea if my oud is in any way typical so I am hopeful that the threads that I start
might result in responses from others who have been able to observe details of other ouds for comparison.
Study of the iconography can be helpful but, of course, is very limited in value when it comes to trying to recreate early instruments that no longer
exist. Usually the draughtsmanship is crudely executed making the value of the evidence even more suspect. Also there are many lute like instruments
depicted in early european paintings and manuscripts that are generally assumed to be lutes or ouds but may not be (I am not sure about Arabic sources
though).
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