farid
Oud Addict
Posts: 33
Registered: 9-5-2006
Location: france
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
the best top?
I'm going to buy a new oud and i wanted to know what's for you the best quality for the top. Is it cedar , cypress or an other wood...
Thx and musically
|
|
|
Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by farid
I'm going to buy a new oud and i wanted to know what's for you the best quality for the top. Is it cedar , cypress or an other wood...
Thx and musically |
Cypress is not a tone wood. If the oud has a cypress top, don't buy it. Cedar was once
the preferred wood due to the proximity of Cedar of Lebanon(Cedrus libani) in the Mid-east, but this source is no longer available. Cedar is still
available in the US, as Western Red Cedar (thuja plicata). It has a warmer tone than spruce, but doesn't develop as much projection or sustain. Most
ouds made by the master makers are using European spruce (Picea Abies) from Turkey or Europe. Engelman spruce (Picea Engelmann) from Canada is warmer
sounding than european spruce, and plays in sooner, but doesn't develop as much projection and sustain over time.
|
|
|
billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
|
|
cedar is ok - smells great but that's just about it.
is there now or will there ever be a carbon graphite oud do you think - a là:
http://www.rainsong.com/
... ?
- bill
|
|
|
Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
As Doc says, nothing wrong with WR Cedar. Shehata uses it, Ghadban uses it. Classical guitar builders are also using it. Heck, I'm going to try it on
my next oud. Mike's new one also has a Cedar top. I think if you do a little reading Bill, you'll find lots of good things being said about it. It
also looks really nice, like an old instrument. Here's a good source for the European Spruce Doc mentions. http://www.tonewood.ch/ Read their page on Moon Wood. Nothing like more mystery to add to the whole soundboard issue! 
|
|
|
Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by billkilpatrick
cedar is ok - smells great but that's just about it.
is there now or will there ever be a carbon graphite oud do you think - a là:
http://www.rainsong.com/
... ?
- bill |
It sounded like a tin can banjo. So the builder (anonymous) abandonded the project.
A new material being used by guitar buiders is Nomex core spruce laminate also used by Kenny Hill, an old friend from CA.
|
|
|
excentrik
Oud Junkie
Posts: 291
Registered: 5-19-2004
Location: Refugee Status...
Member Is Offline
Mood: Now Here, Nowhere...
|
|
Im not gonna disagree with the doc here, but I really love the look and feel of cedar- but thanks for the info, Dr. Oud, I didn't know that cedar
didn't "appreciate" as much as spruce did... is there a scientific reason for this? does cedar hold more moisture than other woods? good info to know
for my next oud purchase... thanks guys,
p.s. that thing up there is a trip... I bet it sounded like one of those bluegrass guitars huh? trip out though, I bet it would sound pretty cool with
a buzok... that would create some cool overtone qualities, what do yall think?
tarik
|
|
|
farid
Oud Addict
Posts: 33
Registered: 9-5-2006
Location: france
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Thx alot for all your advices.
I think i'll probably buy a shehata oud with a red cedar top and i'll show you when i ll received it.
|
|
|
billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
|
|
doc - verrrry darth vader. wonder why it didn't work? one would think that an integral structure made out of anything rigid with a hard surface
would positively hum.
|
|
|
Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
|
|
The guy used a flat panel of Carbon Fiber without bracing for the face but it apparently needs something to mimic the characteristics of wood with
braces. The Nomex core laminate guitars still use bracing, just replacing the solid wood with the laminate. Braces definitely create nodes that
influence the acoustic characteristics of the soundboard, so perhaps braces would have made it sound more oudy.
|
|
|
jshead
Oud Junkie
Posts: 101
Registered: 10-2-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Peace
|
|
My '38 cairo oud has cedar top and is lovely sounding. As former classical guitar player who knew only spruce, the sweetness of cedar is completely
charmed me.
|
|
|
farid
Oud Addict
Posts: 33
Registered: 9-5-2006
Location: france
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Is it possible to show photos with red cedar top and engelman spruce top to see the difference in aspect with others cedars and spruces?
|
|
|
jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Just for information and interest - here are a couple of images of a lute that I built - as an experiment in the early 1970's - with a composite
foam/ carbon fibre/ fibreglass body and integral neck but with a conventional barred soundboard of Western Red Cedar. My idea was to design an
instrument that might be made relatively cheaply but still look and sound good. I made three prototypes but discontinued the project essentially
because I did not like working with fibreglass and because I was more interested in making historically accurate instruments from wood - which is what
the majority of the market wanted anyway.
I first modelled the instrument in plaster with pronounced fluting of the 'ribs' (for additional rigidity of the body) and with a traditional
decorative inlay in the back of the neck - from which I cast the production mold (in fibreglass). The body of each instrument was made from a gel coat
followed by single layer of fibreglass woven cloth - producing a very thin thickness for the body (but still heavier than one made from wood) In the
prototype, I added strips of carbon fibre along the 'rib joints' for additional longitudinal stiffness. The neck cavity was filled with expanding foam
for rigidity.
The soundboards of these instruments were made from (non traditional!) Western Red Cedar with traditional barring geometry. The pegbox, pegs and
fingerboard were also made from wood in traditional fashion. Western Red Cedar is a popular material today for some guitar soundboards. It is softer
and less dense than spruce so the belly must be left a bit thicker to compensate.
The instruments did work and could be produced in all kinds of non traditional colours ( I made an example in translucent orange - just for fun!) but
were not really what I wanted to spend time in making and developing.
The same techniques could be applied to ouds also but I suspect that most oudists - like lutenists - want to acquire and play a traditional instrument
in wood - made to the highest level of craftsmanship that they can afford. Besides, wood is not only the best material but is, environmentally, the
only choice.
|
|
|
Hosam
Oud Junkie
Posts: 180
Registered: 12-6-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
jdowning, thanks for sharing such interesting information with us. The neck inlay is very nice.
|
|
|
INFAMOUD
Oud Junkie
Posts: 105
Registered: 9-23-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: Im good where I am
|
|
What were Nahat's Oud tops made of??And also what about Walnut..?
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
