Oudoneit
Oud Maniac
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Background music
I love this quotation. Found it on the Golden Horn site. I agree with it wholeheartedly!
“Of all the modern phenomena, the most monstrous and ominous, the most manifestly rotting with disease, the most grimly prophetic of destruction,
the most clearly and unmistakenly inspired by evil spirits, the most instantly and awfully overshadowed by the wrath of heaven, the most near to
madness and moral chaos, the most vivid with devilry and despair, is the practice of having to listen to music while eating a meal in a restaurant”
(G. K. Chesterton from Avowals & Denials, 1935)
Discuss...
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zalzal
Oud Junkie
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Not me, though i do not practise it often, it is still grabbed in my memories some 20 years ago suppering at evening of a nice summer in a Tunis
restaurant while listening at a takht, and their beautiful taqsims, smoking narguileh, drinking tea and looking at the stars in the sky, all at the
same, while....eructing totally satisfied like a baby. No madness, no devilry, no despair, just some peaceful music in a summer night under a heavenly
tunisian sky. I left the place morally happy and plenty of well being.
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excentrik
Oud Junkie
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seriously zalzal- I feel you on that one- nothing could be better, I just wish there were more spots in the united snakes that you could enjoy
that-
tarik
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
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I love eating to the right kind of music, but not the awful, pumping-beat "ethnic" pop music so many ethnic restaurants play. WHY DO THEY DO THIS?
Do they believe a pounding beat aids digestion??!! One local Moroccan restaurant plays North African pop music so awful that it gives me a headache.
When I go to eat there, I give them a recording of mellower traditional music (especially Said Chraibi) and ask them to play it instead!
And I actually enjoy playing background music for the right events...
Peace,
Udi John
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excentrik
Oud Junkie
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John- Ive been dealing with that my whole life- cuzins and friends want to go to an arabi place, and I end up hating it. that stupid pop-sh*t is
death of my culture. I cant stand it. whats worse, it's not only the Arabi pop- Ive heard Greek, Turkish and Armenian pop thats just as bad, if not
more cheesy (proximity to europe's trance scene...).
even when you ask them to play something more classic like Farid or Abdel Halim, or even some trippy Munir Bashir album- they say "no body likes this
anymore". I know they are lying- Im young and thats my favorite stuff... you know?
tarik (sorry about the rant)
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Oudoneit
Oud Maniac
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I started this post when I read the quote from G.K. Chesterton, as it reminded me of two things:
a) when I was a player of background music, I hated being ignored. I hated not being able to be subtle.
b) I was once in a restaurant in the Gardens Genaralife in the Alhambra, in a state of near ecstacy...until some fool starting playing 'Recuerdos de
la Alhambra' VERY badly on a guitar! Ruined the whole experience.
I seem to have an inability to do two things at once, such as eat and listen. It's one or the other. As for 'Arabic pop music...
Rob
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mustafa
Oud Maniac
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this might seem a little strange but actually i'm here in indonesia with a big family about 60 people and every night we eat together, accept i play
the oud to accompany their eating, it is actually a wonderful feeling and for me it is not very often i get to play by myself with only a daf or
dumbek accompanying me. it is nice to sit back without being noticed just playing my oud...
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stringmanca
Oud Junkie
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I like quiet background music when I'm eating, but if it's too loud or fast then I eat too fast!
I think part of the reason for loud pop in restaurants is so they can turn over the customers quicker - or maybe it's to keep the wait staff moving.
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excentrik
Oud Junkie
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usually, in the types of places Im talking about- there is no wait staff! just a big dude behind the counter that cant even get your shai (tea) right!
not to mention to lousy shisha they try to serve... man Id rather stay home and pop a CD with my lady and relax.
and mustafa: it does seem strange.
tarik
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ALAMI
Oud Junkie
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I am getting back to this thread because I think that you guys, indirectly raised the real problem of pop music production in the arab world,
specially when John and Tarik where raising the fact that they are faced with the same answer : "nobody likes this music anymore".
The problem is no more if playing music in restaurants is a good or a bad thing, the problem is that pop music is now produced to BE played in
restaurants with fast food chains managers as artists mangers and big financial companies seeking to fill airtime on their 24 hour music channels with
whatever "dancing sexy girl" songs. Singers are recruited "a la chaine" in beauty contests and top models agencies, you go visit the composers "a la
mode" and fill your cart with 8 songs you hire a sound engineer and you launch your new star.
Look to your arab music CDs guys and tell me how many of what you consider as being a good CD is actually produced in the arab world during the last
10 years ?
If you tell a young arab that the songs of Farid, Abdelhalim, Fayrouz, Warda, Najat and even OumKoullthoum are pop songs and they were considered as
so no more than 30 years ago, they will look at you as if you shouted that Elvis is alive.
A few days ago samir posted 2 clips of Najwa Karam, a singer with a beautiful and powerful voice (and after many surgeries, she looks also good), the
funny thing is samir's choice: one clip was OumKoulthoum, the other was traditional Folk Mijana - Not the artisit's own songs !
My Point: buy as much ouds as you can, it is also a good investment, if things keep going this way in a generation, the only oud maker will be Yamaha
and oud musicians will become an ethnic curiosity, Protools and Cubase will be the main arabic music performers!
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
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Hi Rob,
I don't mind playing backgound music and being ignored as long as I'm being paid decently for my time. I ignore the "audience" and play for myself.
It really only irks me when I donate my time to play music for a benefit and everybody gabs loudly during the performance.
I always suspected that the pounding-beat pop ethnocrap music was about "turning over" the diners more quickly, but I can't believe I'm the only one
who finds it unpleasant. There are some otherwise great restaurants that I don't patronize because of this.
As for traditional music, in the Arab world as elsewhere, it may decline to the point of being only listened to and appreciated by a small subculture,
but I don't think it will ever completely die out. (This is certainly the case for traditional music in the U.S.) The issue of traditional
instrument building is more complicated, because it's such a specialized skill, but I don't believe that oud building will ever completely disappear
in the Arab world. It will most likely become rarer, and good instruments will become proportionately more expensive and harder to come by, but this
has already happened to a great extent.
Kudos to Mike and this site for helping us to keep the flame burning!
Peace,
Udi John
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eliot
Oud Junkie
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Well, I've done my share of playing to a bunch of gorging restauranteurs, and it's certainly not my favorite context for subtle acoustic oud music.
Particularly if there's a belly dancer. I had a weekly gig in San Francisco which was a really good opportunity to see the effect of amplified,
uptempo dance music (acoustic, mind you, but still amplified and uptempo), in combination with a belly dancer going to tables for tips, slow and
somewhat unobservant wait staff, and food that didn't really quite work, either. There'd be a couple in there obviously on their first date, and they
couldn't focus - on each other, their conversation, the food (which needed all the distraction our music and belly dancer could provide), the music,
or the dancer (folks, taking yer date to see a belly dancer is not necessarily the best call). They'd look like they were in a state of shock after
about 15 minutes. I felt sorry for them!
It's better here in Istanbul - at the meyhane we play at, people sing along with our group, dance in between courses if the urge comes
(social/regional folk dance, not belly dance), and participate in the event. Our playing, thus, isn't background music at all, though there's food and
drink all over the place. However, there is little interest in sanat (Ottoman classical) music, so all that carefully learned repertoire of saz
semais, pesrevs, bestes, kar-i-natik, ayin, falan falan seems to stay at home.
I have a bit of an opinion on background music in general:
I think that if we don't work hard to prevent every single indoor space from endless cd playback we're in for some serious trouble, and the effects
are already becoming obvious. I think that it should be really expensive and require complicated-to-obtain permits for retail outlets that do not
directly sell music or promote live entertainment to have recorded background music, period. By that, I mean I believe there can be no unalienable
right for a retailer to create noise pollution - it needs to be a privilege that is purchased for a steep price. And why not dissolve the entire Muzak
corporation while we're at it? I'm dead serious with this - Turkey is no different than the US in this matter.
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
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Merhaba Eliot,
I wonder if we've played at some of the same venues...although the SF Arabic restaurant that I played at most serves food a good deal worse than
"doesn't work!" In general, the belly dancer thing makes me a bit queasy. I appreciate the fact that I focus on playing "devotional music," which
gets me out of doing too many belly dancer gigs!
In general, I would maintain that traditional music scenes are stronger outside of Western Europe and North America, especially in the Developing
World, though there are occasional exceptions (the Irish seem more proud of their trad music than most EU folks). This was certainly my experience
in Turkey. I of course am speaking of FOLK music.
Classical music/art music has typically had a smaller (and more discerning) audience wherever it's been composed and performed. Some friends of mine
in SF have the right idea: They converted their basement into a small concert hall for Early Music performances.
As far as creating laws to control the playing of CDs in stores--good luck. I think the best we can realistically do is educate the public to be
more discerning consumers and be more assertive about raising a stink when background music becomes noise pollution.
Peace,
Udi John
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palestine48
Oud Junkie
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As a Restaraunt Owner I felt I had two put my two cents in .
Music is a phsycological tool used in food service. Fast beats means eat faster so i can clear the table and get another couple in. It all depends
on the mood of the place.
Also, a city like SF, the population is getting younger and more sheeky.
Take blowfish for example, its a sushi bar transformed into a night club theme with japanese cartoon soft porn. I hate it but its whats hip and
its
busy although i prefer the traditional sushi bars that are low key and mellow.
As far as oud disappearing, Let me ask something. are there any less "fomous" oud builders as in the past. Ok we understand that nahat, khalife,
and bedrosian were amazing builders. but through this website alone i think we can count just as many builders. turunz, haluk, ghadban, shehata,
fadel, amin. I mean that doesnt show me oud will die.
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John Erlich
Oud Junkie
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Location: California, USA
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I think we all know that background music is a psychological tool in restaurants, retail stores, etc. The real question is why do we put up with
obnoxious indoor noise pollution? I think I'm going to be more assertive about complaining from now on...
Peace,
Udi John
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eliot
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-5-2005
Location: The Gorges
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| Quote: | Originally posted by palestine48
As a Restaraunt Owner I felt I had two put my two cents in .
Music is a phsycological tool used in food service. Fast beats means eat faster so i can clear the table and get another couple in. It all depends
on the mood of the place. |
There's plenty of capitalistic justifications for background music - Jonathan Sterne has an excellent overview of them in his book The Audible
Past and also in an article about background music in the Mall of America. The Muzak corporation became so large since there was such an obvious
noticeable boon to shopping receipts. Even down to the sequence of programming to create a constantly-changing mood; suggestive song lyrics;
everything.
But that doesn't make it right or good. I've decided, for myself (and I've worked enough retail and restaurants to see the sort of
hypnotic effects that can be directed towards on-the-fence customers), that the social costs outweigh the capital benefits. I may be alone (perhaps
with John, that'll make 2 of us) in my mission, but as a professional musician an recording artist I feel it's my duty to do what I can to rid the
world of needless background music.
| Quote: | Originally posted by palestine48
As far as oud disappearing, Let me ask something. are there any less "fomous" oud builders as in the past. Ok we understand that nahat, khalife,
and bedrosian were amazing builders. but through this website alone i think we can count just as many builders. turunz, haluk, ghadban, shehata,
fadel, amin. I mean that doesnt show me oud will die. |
The oud hasn't died in Turkey, and it's not an immediate worry. But people have forgot what it's supposed to sound like (or perhaps, many of the ways
it used to sound like), and there really isn't a single performance venue you would ever want to go to hear oud music in Turkey.
What's not dying are individual instruments (particularly in Turkey, where obscure folk and classical instruments pop up in rap and pop songs all the
time). What's dying is the sense of pre-amplified music aesthetics. Even many of Turkey's young performing sanat musicians have irreparable hearing
damage, insisting on ridiculously hyped high frequency boost in both concerts (where the speakers already hype and distort particular high
frequencies) and on their albums. A new generation hears those as the new reference standard, and exaggerates the worst qualities to an even greater
extent.
Much of this is due to hearing poorly made recordings played back on lousy distorting stereo systems all over the place, 24 hours a day. When that
sound dominates your audible perception, it seems natural after a while. I hope that some day it won't seem natural...
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