Amos
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garip hicaz
hi everyone,
i hope this finds you all well...i am wondering if anyone can help me the makam 'garip' hicaz. i think i remember al teaching it to me as regular
hicaz with the 2nd a little sharped and the 3rd a little flatted, but i am not sure. i have been playing a song called 'bir sari yilani', a song that
uses this makam, by ear, but i want to be sure about the notes. i appreciate any and all help.
amos
Our music is like an ocean...
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Amos
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anyone?
Our music is like an ocean...
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Microber
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Amos,
I didn't know Garip was a specific maqam.
The only one that I know is a samai composed by Göksel Baktagir, a Turkish qanunist.
You can see and hear it here on youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AP1ap1jyG4
I also play this one by ear as a 'normal' Hijaz.
But maybe I'm wrong.
Robert
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pirsultan
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Sounds a bit like a tautology to me. I've never heard of such a makam in the Turkish classical music context - but neither do I claim to be any sort
or expert. I am more familiar with Turkish folk (halk) music and "garip", which means "strange" in the folk music nomenclature refers to a scale with
intervals similar to hicaz (much as 'kerem' is similar to Hüseyni) but such designations don't carry with them the same meaning as makam although
they can have specific reference. For example 'garip havası' does refer to a type of gurbet uzunhavası (song in free rhythm) from the Milas
area in western Anatolia.
Regards
Paul
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dahun
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Amos, as far as I know the garip hicaz is the way Roma musicians play hicaz. Simply, the intonation is modified as you write in your post. It is not a
separate makam.
This is all I know from what I heard and read.
Béla
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pirsultan
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Just another thought that occur to me - though it could be a bit of a long shot - 'garip' may actually be a mispronounciation of 'karip' or 'karib'
which is sometimes used in regard to makams in Turkish to mean "near relative" or "related". So 'garip hicaz' could just mean a hicaz related
makam.
Paul
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eliot
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I've talked to sanat musicians who denied the existence of garip hicaz, and others who use it to refer to the hicaz which has a more beyyati-like
second note, rast-like third note (A, B-2commas, C+4 commas, D). This hicaz is commonly used in performances of makam Huzzam, for example, in Turkey.
There are also pieces in hicaz which are commonly played using these intervals.
Hicaz is that one tetrachord that simply has no relation between the written theories and the performance practice. No relation whatsoever.
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Amos
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thanks everyone, these responses pretty much confirm what i remember al teaching me about this modulation. thank you all for your knowledge and
time.
all the best regards,
amos
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mavrothis
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Hey,
Garip hicaz is referred to a lot by Gipsy, Armenian and Greek musicians (and older Turkish players). Depending on the song and especially your
teachers' influences, you might use it or not. It is like you said Amos, raised second and lowered third.
Whether you are playing a crazy karsilama in a club or in a classical ottoman music concert, your hicaz second should be dik kurdi (sometimes as high
as segah for feeling) and third should be nim hicaz for it to really move the people.  Always remember that these notes are alive and moving, not frozen to any specific part of your fingerboard at all times.
Many players are probably playing garip hicaz but they just don't acknowledge the name.
mavrothis
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Microber
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| Quote: | Originally posted by mavrothis
It is like you said Amos, raised second and lowered third.
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Here is the description of 'regular' Hijaz in maqamworld :
A very important peculiarity of the Hijaz tetrachord is a microtonal variation from the Western even-tempered scale, where the 2nd note (E) is
tuned slightly higher, and the 3rd note (F#) is tuned slightly lower, so as to narrow down the 1 1/2 tone interval.
http://www.maqamworld.com/maqamat/hijaz.html
This also is the description of Garip.
Can I make a comparison?
Hijaz and Garip are like twin brothers.
When you see them for the first time, you take one for the other.
After some time, you recognize each one at the first sight.
Is it correct ?
Robert
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adamgood
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Microber
Can I make a comparison?
Hijaz and Garip are like twin brothers.
When you see them for the first time, you take one for the other.
After some time, you recognize each one at the first sight.
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For me it's more like they are both the same person, Garip is what happens to Hicaz when he smokes a doobie.
twin brother analogy is good for Hicaz vs. Hicaz Humayun
a couple recordings maybe worth hearing:
Udi Hrant "The Early Recordings" - check out track 12, his Hicaz taksim on violin. I think that sounds pretty much like garip Hicaz.
also from Semazen.net, the Hüzzam Mevlevi Ayin:
http://www.semazen.net/download_detail.php?id=7
download (it's free):
Hüzzam Mevlevi Ayin-i Şerifi - Hammâmîzâde İsmâîl Dede
Eliot mentioned that you could learn something about Garip Hicaz by checking out Hüzzam. check out the way they sing/play the hicaz interval in makam
Hüzzam their "hicaz 2nd" is high, probably too high for garip hicaz but it's interesting contrast.
ah also the hicaz interval for makam karcigar should be something like garip, even for classical music.
adam
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