drkam6
Oud Lover
Posts: 10
Registered: 5-31-2007
Location: Canada
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Custom string instrument based on Oud
Hello - I"ve been playing Oud and Oud-related instruments since around 2000. My background is guitar. I got my first Oud, a nice Egyptian
student-level, very lightweight. However it was not very practical to play given my guitar techniques - its action was too high on the upper ranges
and it was a challenge to play amplified.
I moved into the Godin Glissentar next. A very good idea of an instrument, and both its playability and guitar tuning allowed me to use it more
widely. It's very practical and easy to carry; pluggable allowing to use it with amplification and effects. Its price is also very affordable.
I'm looking into improving the scope of the instrument but going a bit back to the traditional spirit of the Oud. The Glissentar's sound is not the
greatest in my opinion - its slim body and neck are maple, a very bright wood which makes the instrument too thin sounding. I contacted Godin
enquiring about a custom Glissentar made of mahogany, but they do not have a custom shop.
Still with the idea of an improved Oud/Glissentar hybrid, I found an interesting instrument made by Fred Carlson, which he calls Harpouditar. It has
the addition of 15 sympathetic harp-like strings on the lower bout.
I wonder if a luthier would be interested in making an instrument similar to the Harpouditar, but more towards the traditional shape and sound of the
Oud. Maybe with a shallower rib back, and the three decorated soundholes on the top.
Just tossing some ideas...
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JT
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Hello DrKam,
I had an instrument built by Abdo Dagher as an experiment which I designed. The sympathetic strings didnt work at first, but we then changed the
design and ran the strings through the bridge, it was then amazing. You can see a picture of the old oud here http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=1732
at the bottom. Its a traditional oud sound with nice sympathic string sound, I have also been able to develop a type of pluck to hit the normal
strings and the sypathetic strings at the same time as accompaniment. Its fun to play, but I love the the good old Oud.
Cheers,
JT
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drkam6
Oud Lover
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Registered: 5-31-2007
Location: Canada
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Hi JT,
Fantastic, I checked out your Oud with the sympathetic drone strings and the idea was great, it is exactly what I was thinking about. I also checked
out the sound file of the Oud you had for sale, amazing playing!
Reading the posting and your reply, it seems that it worked running the drone strings through the bridge; on the photo the drone strings are all on
the left side. What type of tuners were used? they look like regular classical guitar tuners.
Do you have any photo with the modified drone strings running through the bridge?
I agree with you, the traditional Oud is a marvelous instrument. The idea I had was just to add extra special to its sound, which you did. Maybe the
drone strings could be muted for certain pieces, and then left open for others... adding sustain and ring to the instrument.
And what about the special pluck? On my Egyptian Oud I was using a plastic risha, but on the Godin Glissentar I was using a regular guitar pick.
Beautiful Oud!
Best Regards,
drkam6
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JT
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I can take photos of the modified version, but Im away in Paris and will be home(Australia) in a month or so.
The strings can be muted by sticky tape. The oud has a nice sound on its own, so its two in one The pegs are mandolin pegs, but Im hoping to add another seven strings and modify it more, but finding time is not so
good.
Heres a couple of links to my playing if you're interested.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=5398
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=6087
Cheers,
JT
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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Mood: Loving my oud
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JT, do you know if anyone is distributing Epiphany in the USA? I could only find import copies
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JT
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Hello Jason,
Unfortunately I do not have a US Distributer for Epiphany.
You can buy copies from here, they are the cheapest and best to deal with:
http://www.birdland.com.au:8080/Birdland/catalogue/category634/p463...
Thanks again,
JT
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drkam6
Oud Lover
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Registered: 5-31-2007
Location: Canada
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Hi Joe,
Thanks a lot for the links to your playing. I listened to the Cafe Riche split 2 solo. You are a fantastic player! Great sound, great piece!!
Yes indeed, I would love to see photos of your drone Oud in the modified version. I'll await for your photos.
Hope you're having a great time in Paris!
Best regards from Canada
drkam6
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JT
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Hello DrKam,
The full version of Cafe Riche can be found here http://www.worldmusiccafe.info/files/
Hope you are well.
JT
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drkam6
Oud Lover
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Registered: 5-31-2007
Location: Canada
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Hi Joe
I listened to the full version of Cafe Riche
What a great piece, total fusion, your playing is just fantastic!!!
Great musicianship, excellent band!!!
I also play in a band, a small trio called The CGS Project.
We try to play some prog jazz-fusion.
There is a video of us on YouTube, I play guitar synthesizer (Roland GR-300)
I'm aiming to integrate a proper Oud-based instrument into the band. I'm thinking that an Electric Oud would be more ideal. But I also have the
curiosity of the drone strings; maybe there is a way to adapt them properly to an Electric Oud.
On gigs with the band, we play a small version of John Coltrane's "A Love Supreme". We base it from the version by John McLaughlin and Carlos Santana
(from "Love Devotion Surrender"). On this version, McLaughlin plays a doubleneck 12/6 electric guitar, creating a sympathetic drone strings effect
with the 12-string neck.
Our version is simpler and I try to compensate the drone with digital delays. At our last gig, I played the piece on the Godin Glissentar. It sounded
very good; this gave me the crazy idea of adding drone strings to an Oud-based instrument.. I believe that the sonic potential would be enormous..
Now I'm on the search of a kind luthier who would like to try to build such an instrument..
Best regards!
Carlos Najar (drkam6)
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JT
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Thanks Carlos, You're too kind my friend.
Checked your stuff on Youtube, Moondawn, sounds great man, keep up the good work. I could never figure out pedals
Ive got a couple of Vids on my website you can check out here http://www.josephtawadros.com on the listen page with different collborations which might interest you. Also there is a track on http://www.myspace.com/josephtawadros called Sahara in which I play Electric oud through a pedal, this might give you an idea of sound;
Thanks again for your kind comments and all the best with the music man!
JT
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drkam6
Oud Lover
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Hi Joe
I checked out Sahara - AMAZING. What a great playing, excellent band!! The time signature is odd, sounds a bit like a 10/8 to me, excellent - while
maintaining a great groove. Your performance is anything less than incendiary!
I also checked out your websites, great work indeed! I'm reviewing the details on them. The performances with the chamber orchestra are beautiful.
Your brother James is also a fantastic percussionist. I am very happy to read of your success and achievements, and hope they will continue!
Sahara also allowed me to listen to the Electric Oud. It sounds good, although I have to say it's treble sounding - does not have much of a bottom
end. Your playing makes the best out of it, and gives it a tremendous difference. Compared to the Godin Glissentar, your E-Oud's expression is closer
to the original Oud. Who is the maker of your E-Oud?
Thank you for your kind comments on Moondawn. I wrote the piece based on the moon eclipse of 2003, and it was re-arranged with the band. We don't have
much exposure; here in Calgary there isn't much of a creative art community. We just perform once a month at a local bookstore, where we have the
chance to experiment and jam a bit onstage. We don't have a website/CD out yet, but we're working on it. I should look into the myspace.com
options...
Hopefully things in Calgary will improve. Europe, in contrast, is bursting with art and talented musicianship. I lived in Hamburg, Germany, about 20
years ago and it was amazing to see the amount of great musicians in every category performing at every location possible.
In Hamburg I remember having attended at a theatre performance with an Egyptian ensemble. This was the first time I heard and saw an Oud in action.
I found this interesting instrument's photo from Veysel Music: a Nevud
http://www.veyselmuzik.com/eng/nevud.php
Best regards and take care,
Carlos (drkam6)
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JT
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Thanks Carlos, It was fun doing that project, Really great musicians and fun to work with.
The band has expanded actually - Its now a five piece - Oud, Arabic percusion, Drum Kit, Keys and Electric Bass.
We are called Joe Tawadros' 'The Oud, The Bad and The Ugly' you might of seen a post about it here on Mikeouds...Its a good festival vibe band and its
fun to play in.
The Groove of Sahara is in 5/4 with the melody in 6/4 and another melodic section in 5/4, but it does have broken bars here an there.
I guess the e-oud is like a electric guitar or bass, it's about finding your own pedal ingredients, the ones that I chose particularly suited me and
was to my liking. I think you would probably be more experienced in this field and would be able to get a sound you liked.
My brother James is a blessing, hes an amazing percussionist, you can here his work here : http://www.myspace.com/jamestawadros
The hybrid instruments look really amazing, I wonder how they sound?
Good luck with everything and thank you for your wonderful compliments.
All the best,
JT
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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Mood: Loving my oud
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Hey JT
Just curious, what kind of mic setup did you use on the Epiphany recordings? I'm having a terrible time trying to get my oud to blend with electric
instruments. Some of the trouble is due to mixing but it seems like my mic just doesn't capture the oud 'up front' like an electric instrument.
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JT
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Hello Jason,
I have a hell of a sound guy! hes amazing and really understands what to use.
I think with normal Mic-ing, the problem is all the effects that are put on , Id start from scratch, no reverb etc and then work on the sound little
by little.
I find condenser mics work well, but Im probably not the best to talk to about this. I have performed when the oud seemed distant and not central, or
too 'boomy'. I think mic position is very important, I would recommend placing the mic between the Pickguard and the sound hole, not directly in front
of the sound hole. I have found this works best.
As for Epiphany, we were all mic-ed aswell as the bass player(mic-ing the amp), as I said my sound guy Simon Lear got an amazing live recording and I
really couldnt believe the sound. He also mic-ed me when I was performing with the Australian Chamber Orchetsra and got a great balance.
Hopefully I was of help.
Cheers,
JT
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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Mood: Loving my oud
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Thanks for the help. I agree about your soundman! I've worked sound for a long time and acoustic instruments and percussion are always the toughest
things to get to sound right in a mix.
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JT
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Simon is amazing and a beautiful person to work with.
For instance, on Epiphany you cant really tell its a live performance till the clapping. The sound is clean between all instruments and balance is
great I think.
His website is http://www.bsound.co.nz/
Im sure he can answer all your questions better than I can.
He's the King of balance...
Good luck!
JT
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rebetostar
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 1-31-2007
Location: the East shore, BC
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Mood: Ajam Ushayran
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Fellow Calgarian oudman
Hello Everybody!
Hello Drkam,
Y'know, I often get a bit down on life here in Calgary..so it's ironic that when I hear someone else disparaging the arts scene here, I feel compelled
to leap to it's defence 
Anyways, it's great to hear of a fellow oudist here in cowtown, and you may be interested to know that we play traditional and original Greek/Med.
music every Wed. 7-10 at Pegasus restaurant, and you would be more than welcome to bring your oud and join us for a taqsim and a tune or two.
I started playing a Sukar electric oud last March (before that I had an Abd el'Haleim Egyptian oud which is still in the band) my Sukar is currently
getting new pegs fitted and new strings (Aquila turkish light on Jameel's advice) so we'll have to see how it sounds when it's done in a week or so
:-)
We are also performing at the North Country Fair June 22-24, (up by lesser Slave lake in N. Alberta), and the Calgary Folk fest in July. (The
highlight of Calgary's music scene, IMO)
JT.. WoW. Totally, totally awesome tracks.
I'm not quite confident enough to post a track on here.. I'm really a novice, self-taught oudist.. but I will, when I'm ready. 
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drkam6
Oud Lover
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Registered: 5-31-2007
Location: Canada
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Hi Rebetostar!
Glad to hear from you and to learn that you guys are playing great stuff at Pegasus here in Calgary! I don't have my Egyptian Oud anymore, as I moved
into playing the Godin Glissentar - an instrument which resembles a guitar, but it's fretless and has the same string arrangement of the Oud. As I'm
primarily a guitarist, this instrument allows me to play Oud lines as a guitar - plus it can be plugged directly into an amplifier and used with
effects.
I use the Oud and Oud-related instruments in an experimental manner... which it's probably not very traditional... however I'm always fascinated by
Oud music and have an utmost respect for Middle Eastern arts and sounds. I used the Egyptian Oud together with guitar synthesizer, on a piece I wrote
for a performance at the Calgary Science Centre, back in 2001.
I'm very happy to hear that you're at the Folk Fest. It's one of the few decent music events here in Calgary. I play with a small jazz-fusion trio at
the McNally Robinson bookstore - actually we have our gig there tomorrow =) We try a bit to make up for the lack of jazz fusion bands here in
Calgary - the TD Jazz Festival was cancelled in 2006, and if not for C-Jazz we would not have any jazz fest like larger cities. Not too many class
acts come to Calgary - the Montreal International Jazz Festival for example features world-class jazz players, to the extent that even the Pat Metheny
Group - a cornerstone of multi-ethnic and creative jazz - played an amazing free-for-all open air concert during the Montreal festival - I watched it
on CBC... Events like this will never happen in Calgary... here people places money and profit before art.
Thank you so much for your kind invitation! I will tell the guys in the band tomorrow about your gig at Pegasus, we'll come to check you guys out! =)
I want to see your Sukar E-Oud!
Best regards,
drkam6
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rebetostar
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 1-31-2007
Location: the East shore, BC
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Mood: Ajam Ushayran
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Hi Drkam,
It will be great to meet a kindred spirit!
Unfortunately I just found out that my Sukar (it's in the hospital) came with unusual-sized pegs. Not to mention the only thing holding the pegbox to
the neck was string tension.. ie: the glue had dissolved! Anyways my luthier is going to have to put bushings in the peg holes to fit the new pegs,
and he's a busy guy giving me the "side project" price..so he said it could be a couple of MONTHS before it's done. So, I guess I won't be playing oud
for a while. I have been taking my CUMBUS to Pegasus though, and I'll just have to practice on that in the meantime.
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will_oud
Oud Maniac
Posts: 75
Registered: 6-4-2006
Location: San Antonio Texas USA
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Mood: Good
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Awsome tracks and instruments! BTW, how much does one of those Goden oud guitars cost? Thanks
William F. Sparks
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drkam6
Oud Lover
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Registered: 5-31-2007
Location: Canada
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Hi Will,
The Godin Glissentar is rather affordable, less than $1000. It's an interesting instrument.
I have seen the Nevud and I'm interested on it, I'm trying to get in touch with Dr. Cengiz Sarikus at Veysel Music House, so far no response. I'll
keep trying.
If I get the Nevud, I'll put my Glissentar for sale.
Regards
drkam6
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