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eliot
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-5-2005
Location: The Gorges
Member Is Offline
Mood: Aksak
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The chair doesn't help my enjoyment of the music, which is hindered by many other things already...
Carry on...
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JamesOud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 102
Registered: 7-22-2004
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Mood: Great
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Hello Guys,
Dandana, Shamma is very famous and I still think he is the face of Modern oud plaing in the middle east.
Whenever oud is involved, people think of Shamma. He runs Beit al Oud in Cairo, Morrocco, Iraq and Dubai and is supported by many Arabic governments.
So his publicity machine is very good especially when it is support by people that are very high up. When we talk about innovation, he is actually not
doing anything overly new. If you listen to Qassabji's private sessions, he uses alot of that technique, strumming, chords etc, that was innovation!
and in the public eye he didnt sacrifice soul for technique.
In many years to come, Shamma will be seen as someone who has done well for the oudd but I doubt anybody will remember him for more than a man that
composed a piece for one hand and had a grand chair. His awful style is unfortunately embedded in the next generation of oud players who he has taught
to sacrifice soul for technique and sacrifice individuality in the process.
confused James.
Gotta love these forums!
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Oudism
Oud Maniac
Posts: 68
Registered: 1-27-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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James..why you're saying awful style. He has his style, actually it's Jamil bachir style. Not necessarly awful, simply different from Farid el atrache
style.
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JamesOud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 102
Registered: 7-22-2004
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Mood: Great
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Hello Oudism,
Thank you for pointing out that I said 'awful' style. It is a bit much I admit, and he has done some good. But what I mean is that this is the style
that he represents Arabic oud playing with. Can you imagine when Westerners hear it, they start to think this is traditional because this is what he
claims, he has a great technique but does not sound Arabic. So this is actually doing more damage to Arabic oud than better, even if the young
generation start listening and accepting this as dogma.
If it is an Iraqi style(which I dont think it is) then he should stop claiming to be the real deal representing the whole Arab world and stick to
Iraq. He already murders Abdel Wahab and Oum Kalsoum songs when he plays them in the Ukelele style. Im sorry if Im a bit extreme, but since this post
the more I listen to him the more I really dislike his style and that interview and chair didnt do him any favours either.
Still confused james
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Oud Freak
Oud Junkie
Posts: 292
Registered: 11-23-2007
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Mood: Oud Jerk 
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JamesOud, you have a point. Absolutely right in what you said about qassabji. I think Nasseer Chamma is the show off style. Technique is great but
technique is not everything.
Cheers!
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Oudism
Oud Maniac
Posts: 68
Registered: 1-27-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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James: check these links. Style is different from the traditional arabic of Qasabji or Farid. You find out from where Nasser is getting his style
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVSTPQTziRI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kY26CkGvuo&feature=related
and here Omar Bachir, son of Munir bachir (brother of Jamil bachir) same style as his uncle
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiiTZ2hpH0A&feature=related
Here Nasiir playing the same music
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8bJ-3iim3w
Now this is the question: do you consider this arabic music? For me yes, as long as the sweet romantic melody is here. Think about Fairouz too. Arabic
music fairouz or Western?? It's arabic but different from traditional.
Best
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dandana
Oud Addict
Posts: 47
Registered: 6-21-2007
Location: europe
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Mood: observer!
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Hello James;
I agree with u on that point of the late Qasabji. Yes Qasabji was what he was: we look at him and recall his works with respect, that's exactly what
we could call the "times' judgement".
Naseer is very famous, yes. But for whom? General public certainly. Would u judge one's level and talent on the "public applause" he gets? I'm not
saying that public is not important but public is one thing and one's real evaluation is another, certainly if we agree that Shamma is very talented
in the show bizz and fame seeking, yes i admit. But it's as if i wanted to attribute a prize of the best one depending on his fame, celebrity and
public reaction: it's not fair, that's all.
If someone wants to know or to evaluate the arabic music by "studying" Shamma and taking him as a reference without looking elsewhere that's his
problem, because the field is full with real talented, serious and hardworking innovators who deserve to earn their right place, and i'm sur they
will.
And one last thing: like or dislike a style is very personal, no imposition, no obligation. It's a matter of taste. That's his style (with all critics
it could bear) and we are left to say our opinions.
The "happy to have this discussion" dandana! Not confused at all!
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
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Mood: Gypsy
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Oudism, ur right. Actually I love that music. My favorite dance for Jamil bachir. Here is a file I am playing it
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
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decompressed !
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
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Mood: Gypsy
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So James: I am not from the new generation but I like Jamil bachir style. Jamil Bachir, student of Muhyyi eddin Targan (a turkish 3oud player who
established a school of music in Iraq in the begining of this century) took the oud into another dimension, by using good technic. Targan is
considered the Paganini of the Oud since he wrote many piece for the Oud very difficult to be played. You may not like the style but Targan style and
subsequently Nassir contributed widly to the Oud. Nassir is no more than a simple student impressed by the style of Jamil Bachir.
check that link, a music composed by Muhyyi eddin Targan, you may understand better my point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5IK70WFYXs
Cheeeeeeers
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eliot
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-5-2005
Location: The Gorges
Member Is Offline
Mood: Aksak
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| Quote: | Originally posted by katakofka
So James: I am not from the new generation but I like Jamil bachir style. Jamil Bachir, student of Muhyyi eddin Targan (a turkish 3oud player who
established a school of music in Iraq in the begining of this century) took the oud into another dimension, by using good technic. Targan is
considered the Paganini of the Oud since he wrote many piece for the Oud very difficult to be played. You may not like the style but Targan style and
subsequently Nassir contributed widly to the Oud. Nassir is no more than a simple student impressed by the style of Jamil Bachir.
check that link, a music composed by Muhyyi eddin Targan, you may understand better my point |
Interesting you mention Targan... he is widely credited with introducing flamenco-inspired technique to the 'ud. His playing differed from many
Turkish artists before and after, since he had a much heavier picking action. Though no one really sounds "like Targan," he is still widely respected
for his innovations as well as his mastery of traditional repertoire.
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Oud Freak
Oud Junkie
Posts: 292
Registered: 11-23-2007
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Mood: Oud Jerk
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katakofka, hehe, I like this I recognized some sequences copied-pasted by Mr.
Chamma, hehe. You are right dear
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DaveH
Oud Junkie
Posts: 526
Registered: 12-23-2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
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One of the Shamma school who I think really does have their own voice and whose CD I've been listening to a lot recently is Yousra Dhahbi.
Agree/disagree???
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
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Mood: Gypsy
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Oud Freak, thanks. If my playing reminds you of Nassir shamma, I am the winner  . If you like I'll play it to you on msn
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Oud Freak
Oud Junkie
Posts: 292
Registered: 11-23-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud Jerk
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| Quote: | Originally posted by katakofka
Oud Freak, thanks. If my playing reminds you of Nassir shamma, I am the winner. If you like I'll play it to you on msn |
Lol. Despite the nice playing, I was talking about the piece of music itself. Talk on msn, c u!
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