gilgamesh
Oud Junkie
Posts: 206
Registered: 10-4-2007
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Mood: in the mood
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smadj
Hello Kids
Take a look at him 
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&am...
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nayoud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 137
Registered: 5-29-2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt -Berlin, Germany
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Mood: Meditative
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interesting ... have you heard nabil khemir .. he's a tunisian who plays a doubled necked lute/guitar (oud-jazz fusion)
Hisham
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nayoud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 137
Registered: 5-29-2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt -Berlin, Germany
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Mood: Meditative
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Nabil Khemir seems to have a few vids on you tube .. here is one if anybody is interested
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEPFgsOg0vg
Hisham
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iloveoud
Oud Lover
Posts: 11
Registered: 1-13-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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hello friends; i ve watches carefully almost all smadj videos on youtube but i m really sorry sounds like this guy barely knows how to hold a richa
almost all his movements are down stroke which doesn t even allow him to play any musical sentence clearly ; feels like his partner on stage ( mehdi
....) is doing the job while he is just dancing 
really not clear playing poor sentence and porr composition some pieces sound a little ok not for a concert rather for a lounge after party but just
because of the musicians surrounding him.
sorry friends i m not at all convinced
concerning nabil khmir i went to one of his concerts lately by a complete chance apart from the aesthetic appreciation which once again is very
relative and personal this guy is trying to search for a new path to express himself which the allowed possibility (since honestly he is neither a
great oud nor great guitar player) but what a good musician and that really matters almost as much when you r a creator and a composer.
hope i wasn t too harsh.
alex
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nayoud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 137
Registered: 5-29-2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt -Berlin, Germany
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Mood: Meditative
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Iloveoud
I agree with you that Khemir's playing on the oud may not bring out the traditional quality of the oud to the extent that we would like, but I guess
that thats a function of the "new path" you talked about. Trying to "fuse" two distinctly musical traditions isn't easy and you tend to lose something
from each ... but nevertheless I liked the blend to a certain degree, it reminds me of Ananda Shankar in the early 1970's (Indian-Rock fusion).
Smadj on the other hand seems to "lose" too much of the oud in the blend...but I'm sure some people will like his music, its all relative at the
end.
I may be traditionally inclined , but I also like to listen to some creativity from time to time.
Hisham
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iloveoud
Oud Lover
Posts: 11
Registered: 1-13-2008
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hisham i completely agree with
appreciation is a very personal matter it depends on ur musical background on what u r used to listen to what ur ear has been brought on nevertheless
there is sthing all of us can agree on it s the technical aspect
of couse all new trials should be respected since there is an effort behind i just hatteeeeeeee when someone who barely controls his instrument ( and
i weight my word) is announcing him self an an oud pionneer hiding his bad playing under a new way of playing if u see what i mean like mr smadj just
hearing his risha crashing over the oud table disturbs me a lot
thks
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eliot
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-5-2005
Location: The Gorges
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Mood: Aksak
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There's always an interesting dynamic, or perhaps tension, between traditional playing (which includes a lot of time-proven techniques for making an
instrument sound "beautiful") and innovation.
We should always remember that the two don't necessarily need to be opposed, and that while some innovations expand the range of expressive
possibilities on the instrument (and have lasting effects), others are just cheap gimmicks (and are quickly forgotten).
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nayoud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 137
Registered: 5-29-2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt -Berlin, Germany
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Mood: Meditative
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Iloveoud
Yes maybe you're right .... the oud may not be suited for Jazz technique or maybe that Nabil's technique on the oud was more jazz like and not fused
enough with oud technique and somewhat lacking, but what I liked in that album was that it wasn't too abrasive to my ear despite the eastern-western
mix, like many previous fusion attempts we've heard during the past.
Smadj's music on the other hand - in my opinion - did little to make me feel that he is playing an eastern instrument, it doesnt put you in the "oudi
mood" (if I'm allowed the use of the term :bounce . Will look more closely to see
his technique.
Hisham
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nayoud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 137
Registered: 5-29-2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt -Berlin, Germany
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Mood: Meditative
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Eliot
I agree with you 100%.
I just feel that most often than not, cross cultural fusion usually need more talent and work that just playing, let say an oud like guitar within the
context of a western band or ensemble, a common case these days.
The only case that comes to mind when the "fusion" works 100%, IMHO, is when you innovate on the instrument itself and "re-culture" it according to
your style. When you listen to a chittarrone or a renaissance lute you don't consider it an oud anymore .. and the music seems homogeneous.
Cheers
Hisham
Hisham
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rebetostar
Oud Maniac
Posts: 96
Registered: 1-31-2007
Location: the East shore, BC
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Mood: Ajam Ushayran
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| Quote: | Originally posted by eliot
There's always an interesting dynamic, or perhaps tension, between traditional playing (which includes a lot of time-proven techniques for making an
instrument sound "beautiful") and innovation.
We should always remember that the two don't necessarily need to be opposed, and that while some innovations expand the range of expressive
possibilities on the instrument (and have lasting effects), others are just cheap gimmicks (and are quickly forgotten). |
You hit the nail on the head there Eliot, and this is very relevant to what I'm currently working on. (Please listen to "Something different" in the
Member sound clips area). Risking the criticism that I'm covering for mediocre playing by adding effects, my intent is to combine two things I'm
passionate about : oud and innovative electronic music. I hope to always improve my playing and one day will buy a nice acoustic oud (hopefully a Faruk
Turunz), but also appreciate the electic oud in and of itself.
BTW, the track which really inspired me in this direction is DuOud's "Yarimo" which I still think is an awesome track, although I don't know if it's
Smadj or Mehdi Haddab doing most of the playing.
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eliot
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-5-2005
Location: The Gorges
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Mood: Aksak
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| Quote: | Originally posted by nayoud
I just feel that most often than not, cross cultural fusion usually need more talent and work that just playing, let say an oud like guitar within the
context of a western band or ensemble, a common case these days.
The only case that comes to mind when the "fusion" works 100%, IMHO, is when you innovate on the instrument itself and "re-culture" it according to
your style. When you listen to a chittarrone or a renaissance lute you don't consider it an oud anymore .. and the music seems homogeneous.
Cheers
Hisham |
Hisham- I think we're of the same mindset. I'd like to continue on this issue of what it takes to make a fusion "that works," as you put it...
In my opinion, a quality fusion between two musical traditions requires not only mastery on both (mastery can be defined in a bunch of ways:
technique, feeling, knowledge of repertoire), but something else as well. I would say that fusion done right is more than twice as
difficult as doing either component well.
In my opinion a successful fusion of jazz and Anatolian music can be found in Erkan Ogur. He developed a truly Turkish fretless guitar technique that
mixes his knowledge of jazz and delta blues guitar (he studied in America for a few years) with a long-term engagement with Anatolian folk music
(kopuz, saz). It's Turkish, but innovative. But it was hard work- a couple decades of experimentation, study, failed attempts, and small
successes. Just in the last few years the experiments have paid off, and he's making truly innovative and beautiful music.
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nayoud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 137
Registered: 5-29-2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt -Berlin, Germany
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Mood: Meditative
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Eliot
I guess we are ... its is this "something else" that you mentioned that really counts. Knowledge of the component "parts" of the "fusion" is
definitely a necessary but insufficient condition for success but this "something else" becomes very clear, in my opinion, when the fusion is being
played on one instrument only. I'm sure someone out there has tried something similar with an oud.
There is is this neyzen/ney player Rayan Zeidan who plays bansuri techniques on an Arabic ney. I suppose that he made modifications on the ney by
enlarging the holes to get that bansuri feel (very innovative) and the outcome was beautiful. The music had a Middle Eastern base and just one step
towards north Indian.
On another note there was Gabor Szabo (a Hungarian Jazz guitarist in the 1960's) who tried mixing the east and west as well. If I'm not mistaken he
had one song called Galatia's dance (not too sure) that was inspirational to many in the Middle East on this Jazz -ME fusion in the 1970's. Again it
was Jazz but with one step towards ME music. John Mclaughin's Shakti, and Facing east (John Wubbenhorst) are also good examples.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but when the fusion is made of "equal parts" one begins to feel that something ... well ...needs some work.
Cheers
Hisham
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gilgamesh
Oud Junkie
Posts: 206
Registered: 10-4-2007
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Mood: in the mood
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Ok 
I gonna hold my risha in a better manner too!
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nayoud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 137
Registered: 5-29-2007
Location: Cairo, Egypt -Berlin, Germany
Member Is Offline
Mood: Meditative
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Hi all
Here is another fusion attempt with Arabic/Balkan/Indian influences:
http://www.franolic-oud.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtqtcprfNlk
what do you think?
Read Eliot's comments about that "something else", its very pertinent here ... mixing scales, sound timbres and rhythms aren't enough IMHO, but i
enjoyed it a great deal nevertheless.
You can also check this guy out http://www.emirudlari.com/
Hisham
Hisham
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