rojaros
Oud Junkie
Posts: 581
Registered: 7-9-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Experience with Abedlaal Hassanin
hi there,
I saw there was quite a controversy about some oud sellers on the forum including Abdelaal Hassanin.
Generally speaking I would support the idea that the forum should be kept free of purely commercial seller interests, especially if their handling of
the transactions doesn't stand up to certain ethical standards.
To do a bit of justice to Abdelaal Hassanin I must report that I bought an Fathi Amin Oud from him during this summer through Ebay and that everything
went correctly.
The instrument he sold to me seems to be a really decent one - very well playable and has also a nice sound - certainly not outstanding, but hey, the
price was OK and this was my first venturing into oud playing - it could have come much much worse!
see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idpgC-hUVMA for the oud I'm talking about.
Of course this is a single personal experience and I also have to add that I went to Switzerland to bring the oud home by myself because I was affraid
of having it sent by mail.
I think, in order to avoid standing in strange light, commercial oud sellers should generally stay away from the forum and work for their good
reputations in places where the relation between seller and buyer is more controlled, like Ebay or Amzon.com shops.
with my best wishes to everybody
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 694
Registered: 11-19-2007
Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: chords prefer frets
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Thankyou for sharing that Rojaros, you are addressing fairness. Sadly, I do not know if Abdelaal Hassanin is still with us but I'm sure he would
appreciate your comments. Regards, Charlie
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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I would like to thank you as well for your report. I'm glad it went well. By hand picking it up, there was no real risk for damage, and that was one
of the big issues others had in their dealings. Not everybody has that luxury. Nevertheless, congrats on your new oud.
I don't mean to hijack your thread, but I too wish to report on it that Abdelaal had recently asked me to delete his membership. I replied to him
asking him if he was sure he wanted me to do it as I wasn't planning on doing it. He confirmed his wish and so I did it. He also wishes everybody well
in the future.
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francis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 428
Registered: 4-8-2008
Location: Saintes , France
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I agree with Rojaros about the quality of Abdelaal's ouds and sure it can worth to buy one. But at his home, of course.
I want to say (for the last time) that Abdelaal didn't insure the oud he sold to me and I paid for insurance. He kept this money and didn't add any
protection around a poor old "hardcase".
He never recognised his error, because he don't want to assume it, even for a few dollars.
For this reason , and because we proove him he played bad games, he prefered go away from the forum.....
From time to time I send him an email about the insurance report....He doesn't answer to my emails....
So, the man has valuable ouds for selling, but sure you have to choose one at his home: he prooved here that it's impossible to trust him.
I agree with Mike who told in another thread that these ouds are a good compromise between cheap bad ouds and great ouds. Now mine is repaired after
the "travel" damages, and his building defaults also repaired, it becomes pleasant to play it: nice sound which will grow with the time...
But what an adventure for this!!!!!!!!!!!
clap de fin.
cheers,
Francis
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1031
Registered: 11-5-2006
Location: right here
Member Is Offline
Mood: Al Salam
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Hello all- I have been following the threads on/from Abdelaal since he first let us know he was selling good quality ouds in the forum which was not
long ago, and especially the situation between him and Francis, as I am sure many of you have.
I think it is one thing for someone to go to his home and pick out an oud and then take it back, as Rojaros did. No probelmo, everyone is happy.
But then we have a situation where a member orders an oud, pays for it, and asks Abdelaal to have it insured for $700.00, for the shipping. The oud
arrives damaged, and as emails are exchanged between them things hotten up and the guy who bought the oud finds out that the oud was not insured at
all, and at the end of the day ends up with not one penny and so has to pay even more money to have it repaired. 
I think if someone is going to sell ouds to anyone in this forum, then as a seller he/she really needs to act with honesty and integrity and
responsibility with every customer, every sale and every situation that may arise.
Perhaps if Abdelaal went the extra mile to insure the oud for $700 as he led Francis to believe he did before he sent it off, then all the bad
feelings that followed would have been avoided and he would still be with us today selling good ouds. I don't think anyone here wanted to go out of
their way to pick on Abdelaal for no reason whatsoever.
I believe most all of us in Mikesouds look upon eachother as part of one large family; helping one another with oud/music related advice and so on.
This is my understanding of this unfortunate situation, and if I have got it wrong then someone please explain to me what the problem was or
wasn't.
cheers, MW
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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I have had time to think with a cool head about this issue.
Mikeouds.com is an internet forum which provides its members with the opportunity to connect and exchange information on the oud.
It also provides the opportunity for people to connect and sell/buy ouds from each other.
(that being said, the transactions go on outside of the forum)
therefore the following disclaimer applies,
DISCLAIMER
Any instrument(s) purchased through the Buy & Sell Forum on Mike's Oud Website is done so at the buyer's own risk. Mike's Oud Website cannot and
will not guarantee any transactions made between buyer and seller. It is highly recommended to deal directly with the oudmakers themselves or at least
with somebody who is known to be a trusted member. I, Mike Malek, would be more than happy to provide feedback via personal email on members who I
deem to be trustworthy. I also recommend trying to obtain feedback from at least two other members who have frequented these forums for long enough to
be able to provide objective feedback between a trustworthy and not so trustworthy seller before purchasing an instrument from the Buy & Sell
forum.
The bottom line is,
The best thing our members can do and should do to protect themselves and each other is to provide positive or negative comment on the forums about
their own transactions carried out between buyers and sellers.
Buyers who have complains should support their claims with tangible evidence (ex: shipping receipts, etc... ) to avoid the blackmailing of honest
sellers.
In no way should the buyer use the forums to slander the reputation of an established seller without the support of tangible proof.
Should the comments of a transaction be negative towards a seller, they would have absolutely every right to participate to these discussions, to
defend themselves and to post any document/proofs that absolves them of responsibility.
Finally,
Since these are commercial transactions that occur outside the forum,
There are various options available to the involved parties to resolve the situation.
Notably, there are legal ways in most of the developed world to resolve conflicts of this type.
It is up to the parties involved to seek the legal options of their choice and to go ahead with them outside of the forum.
In the end, debates about a comercial transaction can only go so far in the forums. If an issue between 2 parties is not resolved trough discussions
on the forums it should not carry on. This means that there should not be more then 1 thread opened for this issue. There should not be any hijaking
of other threads for the purpose of bringing up the issue.
Furthermore, once its clear the issue is not going to be resolved on the forums then the thread should be locked and the implicated parties should
settle their differences outside of the forums using the legal ressources of their choice.
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 694
Registered: 11-19-2007
Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: chords prefer frets
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If one "specific transaction" is used to discredit the otherwise sound reputation of an oud seller by way of forum members simply giving their
opinion, this is unfair and will surely be damaging to the forum in the long run.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
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I have changed the term to, "their own"
I have also made other changes to further prevent this type of behaviour.
thanks for pointing it out Charlie,
I had a vision for this to be sort of a working doccument to refer to in case of issues.
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