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Edward Powell
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Well of course the two go hand in hand... turning backs of Turkish influence while embracing Western.
Why still play makams.....? Well then what should they play when there entire musical heritage is based on them?
Anyway, I am not "pushing" this viewpoint, only mentioning that it occured to me - and wondered if anyone could support that somehow -
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jdowning
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I have looked further into my reference sources to try to find the originator of the 'aversion to Moorish things' theory but - frustratingly - cannot
currently locate it.
The following additional information may be of interest to those generally unfamiliar with the vihuela/viola instruments of the 15th/ 16th C.
Tinctoris in his book "De Inventione at usu musicae" published around 1487 first describes the lute and then goes on to describe an instrument "...
invented by the Spanish, which both they and the Italians call the 'viola', but the French call the 'demi-luth'. This viola differs from the lute in
that the lute is much larger and tortoise shaped, while the viola is flat and in most cases curved inwards on each side ...... while some play every
sort of composition most delightfully on the lute, in Spain and Italy the viola without the bow is most often used" Note that the Italians at the time
referred to any stringed instrument as a 'viola' - a potential source of confusion for modern researchers - but Tinctoris is clear enough that the
'viola' he was referring to is the 'viola da mano'.
The bowed viol family of instruments is a different story altogether.
The attached image shows the well known engravings of a five course viola da mano and a six course vihuela da mano - the viola with its characteristic
and distinguishing curved peg box and the vihuela with its flat pegbox. The backs of these instruments may have been either flat or vaulted - as were
the guitars of this period and later (notice the curvature of the back of the viola case).
The viola engraving is circa 1510 by Marcantonio Raimondi and the vihuela engraving is from 'El Maestro' by Luis Milan, 1536.
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
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Mood: g'oud
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one thing I still find a bit frustrating is that it seems that we have little record of things before 700ad. The point being, that the original
question posed by this thread was; "did the guitar come from the Moorish Oud in Spain? And if not, then what Spanish guitar-type stringed instruments
WERE actually the grandparents of the first guitars?"
Of course it is interesting and helpful to know about these guitar type instruments from the 1500s, but does it help in our quest to identify G'pa
guitar?
And anyway, when did the first REAL GUITARS appear anyway???
Forgive my ignorance )
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: g'oud
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one thing I still find a bit frustrating is that it seems that we have little record of things before 700ad. The point being, that the original
question posed by this thread was; "did the guitar come from the Moorish Oud in Spain? And if not, then what Spanish guitar-type stringed instruments
WERE actually the grandparents of the first guitars?"
Of course it is interesting and helpful to know about these guitar type instruments from the 1500s, but does it help in our quest to identify G'pa
guitar?
And anyway, when did the first REAL GUITARS appear anyway???
Forgive my ignorance)
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
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I found the reference that I was looking for. It appears in 'The Oxford Companion to Musical Instruments' where author Anthony Baines summarises the
definitive research paper by Lawrence Wright "The Mediaeval Gittern and Citole; a case of mistaken identity" Galpin Society Journal #30, 1977. From
his analysis it has been concluded that the figure 8 shaped guitars were quite independantly invented by the Spanish during the 15th C - it is thought
because of their perennial aversion to lute-like instruments such as the small gut strung Mediaeval gittern widely used for popular music making
The gittern, however, known in Mediaeval Europe from as early as the 10th C, is thought to have been introduced to Europe through the Islamic culture
in Spain.
It depends what you mean by a real guitar?
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