Owain-Hawk
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Classical Persian Maqam?
Hi Oud maniacs  , I wanted some help identifing these maqam's that I found in a
book entitled "Classical Persian Music, An Introduction by Ella Zonis" that I picked up from the libary. It was written in 1973 and the last person to
have taken it out of the libary before me was on the 6th of September, of 1978  .
I have had it for a long time now but I just have been too busy to read it, but I didn't think there was any point taking it back as nobody is
interested anyway! However while skipping through I found a list of "maqamat with their times of performance". I didn't realise they only played
certain maqams at certain times of the day like I heard they do in Indian Raga? 
The list goes like this....
"Rahavi - At the false sunrise (What is a false sunrise?!)
Husayni - At the true sunrise
Rast - When the sun appears above the horizon
Abu Salik - Before noon
Zanguleh - At noon
Ussaq - At afternoon prayers
Hijazi - Between afternoon prayers
Isfahan - At Sunset
Nawa - At evening prayers
Buzurg - After dinner prayers
Zirafkand - when going to bed"
The only ones I know are "Husayni" being Husseini, Rast, Ussaq, "Hijazi" being Hijaz, and Nawa (Nahawand?)
I was wondering if they are perhaps just standard Arabic scales but with different names. So if anyone knows what the notes for these scales are, I'd
be grateful as it doesn't say in this book.
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Edward Powell
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I am also interested.....
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Dr. Oud
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The Persian traditional music system is known as the Radif, containing 14 Dastgah and/or Avaz, (modes) not Maqams. It is an aural system
fundamentally, however some books have been written with notation. The Radif Of Mirza Abdollah", is a CD version that has been recorded by Dariush Tala'i for setar. There is a book by Ahad Behdjat based on the
version of Nourali Boromand, transcribed for santur, I got at the ehran University book store. I don't know if or where you would get it outside of
Iran. The Radif is a collection of approximately 360 melofies, (Gushays) that are intended to instruct the student in the use of each Dasgah and/or
Avaz. Once mastered, it is a base to construct personal improvisations and compositions to accompany poetry and instrumental performances. It is not a
fixed system, but it is expected that each player develops his own version of the Radif, based on his study of the past master's versions. Here's a
nice site with samples of the Radif
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Peyman
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I didn't know about this set but it is recommended to play different Dastgahs in different times of the day. What you have listed are Gooshehs (what
make up the Dastgah) which I hadn't seen before. It's interesting. I'll look into these later.
I am not sure where the idea comes from but I read a lecture by a santoor master (forgot the name) that expanded this idea further into a ridiculous
set of rules, such as playing what Dastgah with what orientation of so and so planet. I have run into similar ideas in old manuscripts as well, that
recommend music for certain times of the year etc.
Anyway, I think the reasoning behind this is more psychological than anything else. For example, Nava (which is not Nahavand) has a very mystical
feel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOAfPA-nP-U
Makams used in Arabic music are different from the Persian modes. Check out "The Dastgah Concept in Persian Music" if you get a chance.
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Butrous
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Simon Shaheen mentioned to me that in days past Arabic maqamat had a relationship to time of day, similar to what is found in Indian music, and now I
have learned in Persian music.
There is so much research that needs to be done in this field.
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Owain-Hawk
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dr. Oud
The Persian traditional music system is known as the Radif, containing 14 Dastgah and/or Avaz, (modes) not Maqams. It is an aural system
fundamentally, however some books have been written with notation. The Radif Of Mirza Abdollah", is a CD version that has been recorded by Dariush Tala'i for setar. There is a book by Ahad Behdjat based on the
version of Nourali Boromand, transcribed for santur, I got at the ehran University book store. I don't know if or where you would get it outside of
Iran. The Radif is a collection of approximately 360 melofies, (Gushays) that are intended to instruct the student in the use of each Dasgah and/or
Avaz. Once mastered, it is a base to construct personal improvisations and compositions to accompany poetry and instrumental performances. It is not a
fixed system, but it is expected that each player develops his own version of the Radif, based on his study of the past master's versions. Here's a
nice site with samples of the Radif |
Thank you for that site Dr.Oud! In fact, the book does mention that it is mostly aural and the player should develop his own style of notation. The
book also mentions that when the author was listening to a player (forgetten the name) he said he was going to play a certain mode, but then changed
it half way through "because he felt like it"  .
| Quote: | Originally posted by Peyman
I didn't know about this set but it is recommended to play different Dastgahs in different times of the day. What you have listed are Gooshehs (what
make up the Dastgah) which I hadn't seen before. It's interesting. I'll look into these later.
I am not sure where the idea comes from but I read a lecture by a santoor master (forgot the name) that expanded this idea further into a ridiculous
set of rules, such as playing what Dastgah with what orientation of so and so planet. I have run into similar ideas in old manuscripts as well, that
recommend music for certain times of the year etc.
Anyway, I think the reasoning behind this is more psychological than anything else. For example, Nava (which is not Nahavand) has a very mystical
feel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOAfPA-nP-U
Makams used in Arabic music are different from the Persian modes. Check out "The Dastgah Concept in Persian Music" if you get a chance.
|
Thanks Peyman, interesting music in that vid. I'll try to get hold of that book sometime.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Butrous
Simon Shaheen mentioned to me that in days past Arabic maqamat had a relationship to time of day, similar to what is found in Indian music, and now I
have learned in Persian music.
There is so much research that needs to be done in this field. |
I didn't even realise Arabic Maqamat had a relationship with the time of the day?! Is this a fact? Do you perhaps know which maqamat was supposed to
be played at what time of day?
Thank you all for the reply. 
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Butrous
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I was just reporting what Simon told me. I do not what is his source.
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Luttgutt
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Some years ago, I learned an Andalusisk song (the real thing, not a "Fairuz"-andalus!) called "Shams al Ashi" - evning sun!
It is a one hour long song (with no repetitions!!), and is well known in Marocco. And it is plays at sunset time.
It is said that this song is one of 13 peaces left again from Ziriab who was exiled in Spain around the year 900 (from my memory, which is not too
good :-)
It is a kind of "Ajam" mode with the variation Bb for B.
Beautiful peace.
To me, this suggests strongly the fact that they used to pay spesial attention to time of day. But can't tell exactly how.
Any ideas?
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