littleseb
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 10-14-2008
Location: london - uk
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Mood: high
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stupid annoying tremolo!!!!!
I just CAN'T do it!!!!!!
After all these months, practicing every single day for at least 3 hours I'm still nowhere near a smooth tremolo!!!!
And, please don't give me dodgy advice or reassuring comments (like 'keep on trying, you'll get there'), because I KONW ALL THIS AND I KNOW EXACTLY
WHAT I@M DOING WRONG!!!
I'm here to vent my frustration, that's all!!!
Otherwise my playing is getting better by the day, got my first concert on November 21st in London, yay!!
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Kelly
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 1-30-2007
Location: Manchester, UK
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Hey littleseb
Glad you are enjoying the oud!!!!!
Where abouts are you playing in London on 21st?
I might be down there that weekend.
Regards
Kelly
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DaveH
Oud Junkie
Posts: 526
Registered: 12-23-2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
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Littleseb, it will come eventually. For some people it just clicks all of a sudden. For others (like me) it's a slow and torturous road.
i've been playing 3 years now and mine's still a long way from perfect, so take my advice with a pinch of salt, but it has improved since our workshop
with Nizar Rohana, who is worth a million dollars, seriously. I'd definitely recommend getting some lessons with a good teacher.
Apart from some excellent advice about hand position and action, which is difficult to describe in words, one of the most useful things he showed me
how to do was relax. Now every music teacher I've ever had on any instrument since the recorder has told me to relax, but no-one succeeded until now
in actually showing how to do it or what a difference it makes. And when people tell you just to play a note again and again slowly, you just think
"boring" and try and do something that sounds more impressive. Or if you're me you do, anyway...
Like trying to catch a fish, it's sometimes a good idea not to go after it but to let it come to you by being sure you can play individual notes. Get
into a relaxed position and play an open string without your left hand on the neck. Completely relax the right hand and play the note by allowing the
risha to fall through the string, with just the force of gravity. No pressure. It sounds boring but if you try to really savour the beauty of the note
- like putting a stone under your tongue - you start to appreciate what a good stroke is. Keep doing this with downstrokes and when you feel you can
get that perfect tone, staying relaxed, start interspersing with upstrokes. All you have to do then is practice doing it faster, but never faster than
you can handle in a relaxed manner. If you tense up it goes all over the place. If you keep practicing without forcing it you can't fail to end up
doing a clean tremolo with a beautiful tone. And there's no point in a fast tremolo that snatches at the strings and sounds like a cat being
strangled. It takes time, but a month or so of gradual progression should get you there.
All this is beginning to sound a bit like the five-fold path, so maybe I should shut up and let you get in with it. i don't know if this will help or
if it even addresses your problem, but Nizar showing me how to relax and focus on tone was really a revelation for me.
And share your pain with other UK oudis - you'll realise it's completely normal.
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bibo10
Oud Junkie
Posts: 300
Registered: 11-10-2008
Location: New Jersey, USA
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Dave,
Perfect, perfect, perfect advice. in my case that is exactly the problem, i just need to relax and keep playing it slooooowwww time after time (and it
is very boring, but it works :applause
but i think that is a very precious peice of advice
+++++++++++
Michael-GOD BLESS EGYPT
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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I don't know if this will help you littleseb, but this was what helped me the most. It's well known that once you "get" something like this, you can
do it with less than optimal tools, but the first time it takes some ideal conditions. What I found was that the reesha needed to have a long enough
face that presented parallel to the string, say 1.5 cm. I ran into this by accident by shaping reeshas different ways until I tried this, and the
tremolo suddenly became easier. Try sanding down the reesha as shown here, to flatten that curve and get a long enough section that can be parallel to
the strings, then "sharpen the edges" also on the sandpaper. I still find this the optimal reesha shape for playing. It''s rather counter-intuitive,
as a curve would seem to offer less resistance, but in practice what I find is the flat section bounces off the strings instead of catching, and you
know "catching" on the string is the enemy of smooth tremolo. Best success!
[file]11928[/file]
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Arto
Oud Junkie
Posts: 120
Registered: 4-1-2006
Location: Finland
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"And there's no point in a fast tremolo that snatches at the strings and sounds like a cat being strangled."
Thanks for the image!  Saved my day... I used to compare my own mandolin
tremolo to a choking chainsaw, so I understand what you are talking about.
I can´t add the the advice above, except that practising with a metronome is very very useful. Make it slow, increase the tempo very gradually, and
go back to slower tempo at once if you notice you are tensing up. Tremolo can´t be forced. The illusion of continuous sound by tremolo has more to do
with the evenness, "naturalness" of it, than with the speed. I now think this is more or less self-evident, but it took me a long time to understand
it.
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Ararat66
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1025
Registered: 11-14-2005
Location: Portsmouth, UK
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Mood: mellow yellow
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Hi folks
Good to hear your experience as I too have entered Nizar's fivefold path ... or is that sevenfold. What is the main change in your playing now ...
btw I always thought you had very nice technique, maybe as you suggest a little tight and overcontrolled at times but you play cleanly and have a good
sense of ornamentation ... I would say you play oud well. I think confidence also helps (also helps you to relax but opens up expression), I've
certainly found that our oud meetings have helped me in that way, and we ought not to forget to enjoy the instrument - its not meant to be a
punishment.
We all play for different and personal reasons but there is a great deal of overlap in the middle. What you find when you savour each note is that
far from being 'boring' it can become quite joyful and your perspective can change from the simple aquisition of skill to the pursuit of tone.
I have to say I'm like Dave - I'm a slow learner once we get into the fine detail. The other thing to point out is your left hand (I presume you're
right handed). If this is tense then your risha hand will also be tense, make sure you are not pulling the oud neck towards you. I used to do this
until our workshop with Nizar, now I am more aware. I also found that the thinner neck on the oud compared with guitar meant my hand closed right
round the finger board. Dave's advice to play open strings is your starting point - then slowly add more till you are playing.
One other thing is that I have learned from yoga practice is that your hands reflect your heart and vica versa. When you play oud you connect on one
side with your right hand, that connection moves up your right arm through your elbow and shoulder and across your throat (voice) and heart centres.
Michael Moussa once said to me to play what I first sing inside so this gies heartfelt expression to your voice. This continues round to the left
hand and the circuit is completed by the oud. I bet you find lots of oud and guitar players with sore necks, stiff shoulders, shallow breathing
etc.
For me all this is a bit of a journey and I am not always able to practice my own advice, but it is always good to have someone watch you .. and watch
yourself in a mirror too.
Best of luck
Perhaps we'll meet up sometime, I'm desperately trying to find some freetime to get upto London and see you all up there. I keep promising Hama I'll make a trip.
Leon
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littleseb
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 10-14-2008
Location: london - uk
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Mood: high
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Well guys,
I'm greatful I got a bit of sympathy from yous. I'm sure it will all fall into place at some point...
Fernand, your reesha tips are good, I'll give it a go.
And it's good to know that you all give more or less the same advice as my teacher.
I'll keep on trying!
PS: Kelly, my concert is on the Iraqi cultural centre in Hammersmith, together with my teacher Ehsan Emam and a few others. It will be ace!
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Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
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Mood: مبتهج ; ))
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Hey thanks you lot, there's some really good advice here, I'll be working on it, (not too hard tho'...gotta relax - easier to say than do!)
Oh, and...
Quote: Originally posted by littleseb  |
... my concert is on the Iraqi cultural centre in Hammersmith, together with my teacher Ehsan Emam and a few others. It will be ace!
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I so wish I could be there! we hardly even see an Iraqi oud player here in Oz, and
back "home" yer crawling with 'em!
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Kelly
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 1-30-2007
Location: Manchester, UK
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Mood: No Mood
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Hi Littleseb
Hammersmith is my old stamping ground from 20 years ago! Is the Iraqi centre listed or anywhere near the broadway tube station?
Kelly
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