hans
Oud Junkie
Posts: 186
Registered: 5-6-2014
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new sound holes?
Dear ladies and gentlemen,
my teacher had an experimental 8 course oud, floating bridge, turkish tuning, made about a year ago, with 2 very thick bass strings. He rejected the
oud for a number of reasons, one being the fact that he did not like the sound. I didn't want to let the opportunity go by to own an oud like this,
also because it has two piezo pickups. However, the sound remains a problem, especially with the a and e courses. I have tried several kinds of
strings, I replaced the saddle of the bridge, which was made of ebony, for bone, to little avail. My teacher thinks the oud should have had 3 sound
holes instead of one. The maker says this can not be changed, but to me it seems that there is room for two small ones, understanding from the posts
of j. downing that the size of the sound hole doesn't matter. I wonder if any of you cares to comment on these questions: would it be a bad idea,
structurally, to have two small extra sound holes created? Is it likely that they would have any (preferably positive) effect?
I hope to hear from you!
Best regards,
Hans
[file]35792[/file]
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hans
Oud Junkie
Posts: 186
Registered: 5-6-2014
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 oops, i forgot to mention the trouble the a and e courses have: the open a
string sounds like a hollow box, the e course sounds very metallic and has a muffled sustain compared to the other ones. Which is a pity because the 5
other lower courses sound really good
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Mood: No Mood
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The size (diameter/area) of a sound hole DOES matter acoustically!!
So does the number of soundholes, their geometrical relationship and position on a sound board and shape (compared to circular). These physical
variables particularly affect the air resonance of an oud that is usually designed to accentuate the bass frequencies of an instrument.
Increasing the soundhole area will essentially increase the air resonance frequency i.e. to a higher pitch (as will increasing the total soundhole
area by adding more than one sound hole) all else, such as air volume, being equal. However, determination of the air resonance frequency for multiple
sound hole designs is currently not well understood.
Hadi Tavakoli of MIT in the research paper 'Acoustic Function of Soundhole Design' (posted on line) investigates the question of triple soundholes and
the effect on the air resonance frequency for some assumed fixed geometrical arrangements (that may or may not conform to traditional designs found in
ouds or lutes).
Cutting extra holes in a sound board will also have some effect on sound board response due to localised reduction in mass and stiffness.
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hans
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 5-6-2014
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ah, so I misunderstood your earlier texts :-{. Thanks for the clarification! and for the article
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hans
Oud Junkie
Posts: 186
Registered: 5-6-2014
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Well, the questions i posed were partly resolved, meaning that I created two soundholes. The oud does sound better, more open, but the basic problems
are not completely gone. I wonder if a bashir style oud is simply not fit to be tuned Turkish style, and I should try the Iraqi tuning, but then again
with different strings
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hans
Oud Junkie
Posts: 186
Registered: 5-6-2014
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I understand now from the extreme amount of knowledge available on guitar forums that a dead or muffled tone is mostly the result of big braces, that
can be trimmed. I read something about this in a post here by edward powell, but before I become very adventurous again I want to know exactly what I
should be doing. I can't find very much about this concerning ouds, however, and the loads of info you can find about guitars is, obviously, only
partly useful. Does anyone know where you can find exact knowledge about bracing of ouds, which brace corresponds to which string and how to trim
them? I hope there will be some more reactions than to the previous questions
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hans
Oud Junkie
Posts: 186
Registered: 5-6-2014
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no?
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hans
Oud Junkie
Posts: 186
Registered: 5-6-2014
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problem solved! (not that anyone seems to care, judging by the lack of reactions :-})I changed the floating bridge for a hybrid fixed bridge. Hybrid
in the sense that the strings are still attached to the body like a floating bridge--I was afraid I would get trouble with the soundboard if the
strings would be attached to a fixed bridge--but the bridge itself has the size of a fixed bridge and is made of maple, as Turkish bridges generally
are, and I glued it to the body with hide glue. Behind the bone saddle I have a piece of wood depressing the strings, to get closer to the kind of
contact strings have with a fixed bridge as opposed to the strings on a floating bridge. I got the idea from an Italian guitar bridge.
I was surprised by how subtle the differences are. There is a lot of talk about the influence of the choice of wood for bridges for instance, or the
difference between floating and fixed, or 1 soundhole versus 3. We're not talking a new oud here, just one whose few troubles were resolved. Actually,
the piece of wood depressing the strings for stronger contact made the biggest difference as far as I can tell
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alchemy
Oud Maniac
Posts: 57
Registered: 11-30-2014
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina
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I'm glad to read that you could solve the problem. I don't know if you have a luthery background, but in any case congratulations. I wonder why the
maker didn't wanted any change on the instrument but also didn't fixed it himself.
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hans
Oud Junkie
Posts: 186
Registered: 5-6-2014
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I don't understand myself why he said there was no room for extra soundholes because there clearly was. I did not go back to him because the former
owner had already started changing the bridge (and before you think: that was probably the cause of the trouble, I heard the oud when it was picked up
in istanbul and already heard that there was something unusual; which is not to say that changing the bridge may have made it worse); and because this
was an experimental oud for the maker and he was in unknown territory; and anyway, when it comes to solving problems on my own, I can't help myself
:-). I don't have a luthery background, but I am very proud of the way it turned out. I am not entirely finished with it, I still want to do something
to finish the small soundholes. I am thinking of (imitation?) jade rosettes
Thanks for the interest :-)
[file]36301[/file]
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majnuunNavid
Oud Junkie
Posts: 622
Registered: 7-22-2013
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Mood: Dude, where's my Oud?
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Please share video clip with sound. I'd love to hear how this sounds...
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hans
Oud Junkie
Posts: 186
Registered: 5-6-2014
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNx5dt82n-s&feature=youtu.be
some quick strumming, I think the volume is very low so it's best to play it over some ext. speakers or a good headset, which would be much better for
the sound anyway. Not very good yet at recordings I'm afraid :-}, despite the good mic. If all goes well it should give you the "wet" sound of a
turkish oud as opposed to the cleaner arabic, but with deeper bass than is usual with a turkish instrument
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