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mbira
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
Registered: 9-1-2015
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Sempat Der Bedrossian & fils 1955 oud
Hi I am new to this forum. I have an old oud that I bought many years ago thinking I would fix it and learn to play but that hasn't happened. I would
like to find out more about it and if it is worth anything in it's current condition. It has a label in ti that says Sempat Der Bedrossian & fils
and a penciled in # 1900 that i think may be the date made. there is also penciled in the # 7955.
I will try to take some good photos to post. I have some not so good photos and i will try to attach the best now. I have someone local who may be
interested in buying this oud. thanks for any help.
[file]36572[/file] [file]36573[/file] [file]36574[/file] [file]36575[/file]
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Welcome aboard.
I beleave this is an oud made by Garabett Derpetrossian, the son of Simpat. The year should be 1955 not 1900, first because Simpat flew to Damascus in
1915 after the Armenian holocaust, and second because the label, though very poor quality, looks like Garabed's with his oud. I'm not sure, but I
think he wasn't even born back in 1900 ( passed away on January 30, 2009) ! Third, Simpat didn't make such bowls; and forth, the big rosette is not
his either.
As to the oud, I'd wait to see better shots in order to try and evaluate it's condition. I can only advise right now that it should be hospitalized
immediately in an oud emergency room 
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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mbira
Oud Lover
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thanks Alfaraby , the 7 could be a 1 in the other number so that would be 1955. it say Beirut on the label. I will try to take some better photos
soon... any suggestions of important angles and such would be helpful.
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
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Beirut. Right ! Here's a similar label from 1955 .
For more of Garabet's ouds, see here: http://www.varjouds.com./berossian.htm
Angles ? soundboard closeups, bowl 2 sides, purfling, bridge, action, fingerboard, tail block, peghouse 3 sides, rosettes, nut, pegs and general look
back and face.
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
[file]36606[/file]
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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mbira
Oud Lover
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That label says 1900 too. What is that #?
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2938
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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The Arabic numeral for 5 looks like a zero. It says 1955 in Arabic numbers.
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mbira
Oud Lover
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thanks and please excuse my ignorance. I will try to take better photos today and post.
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SamirCanada
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in the condition it is in... its an extensive rebuilding project. Best done by someone who knows how to work with "saddaf" mother of pearl etc...
I am not sure where you are located but its something I could do if you are interested. I am based in Ottawa, Canada.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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By the way, those look like they could be nice old rishas in the strings—don't lose them!
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mbira
Oud Lover
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HI SamirCanada, I am interested in selling it to someone who would rebuild it. I had thought about learning oud - that's why I bought it - but that
isn't going to happen, saz is enough of a challenge. So I hope to get an idea of it's worth in the condition it is in. I didn't get the better photos
taken yet but will in a few days.
[quote=107916&tid=15976&author=SamirCanada]in the condition it is in... its an extensive rebuilding project. Best done by someone who knows
how to work with "saddaf" mother of pearl etc...
I am not sure where you are located but its something I could do if you are interested. I am based in Ottawa, Canada.
[/ rquote]
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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I will say this: it is better to sell it to a someone who will have it restored to their liking than to invest in restoring it yourself with the
intent to sell. Anyone with an interest in an old, reasonably historic instrument is going to have their own preferences and philosophy regarding
restoration. If you restore it yourself you are likely limiting the pool of buyers and are unlikely to recoup your repair investment, as others have
discovered.
Someone like Samir, who has the skills to restore it himself would be a likely candidate.
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Mehran
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 4-27-2006
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Absolute beauty. Can easily see this one being fixed up and sounding lovely.
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mbira
Oud Lover
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Thanks Brian Prunka, your advice sounds wise. I have had some interested via private msgs from oud restorers too. But I am not sure of it's worth so
need to get some better photos posted and maybe some folks here could give me an idea of price.
thanks again
Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  | I will say this: it is better to sell it to a someone who will have it restored to their liking than to invest in restoring it yourself with the
intent to sell. Anyone with an interest in an old, reasonably historic instrument is going to have their own preferences and philosophy regarding
restoration. If you restore it yourself you are likely limiting the pool of buyers and are unlikely to recoup your repair investment, as others have
discovered.
Someone like Samir, who has the skills to restore it himself would be a likely candidate. |
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mbira
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
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Can anyone give me an idea of how much an oud by this maker and of this age in excellent or restored condition would be worth?
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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My opinion:
This oud, if it was in excellent condition, played well and had a great sound, and had never needed substantial restoration, could be
worth a few thousand dollars. Probably not more than $3500 unless it was a truly exceptional example of his work.
It's impossible to project what it would be worth after restoration. It is not worthwhile to restore it unless you are yourself a luthier or intend
to keep it and play it yourself. If you are going to sell it, better to sell it as is.
As a guess, an absolutely perfect (whatever that might mean) restoration might find it worth about $2000, give or take $150 or so. But again, the
problem is that what you or a restorer thinks is the right approach may not be what the buyer thinks.
I have seen, over and over again, people attempt to restore an instrument in order to sell it. In almost all cases, they do not make back more than
what they spent to restore it, in some cases taking a loss.
For reference, here is our own Dr. Oud, selling a fully restored Nahat, older than yours, for $2500. A Nahat is far, far more desirable than a
Bedrossian.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=15725
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mbira
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
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So I took new photos hope these show more. Please let me know if I missed anything or more detail is needed.
I am having trouble uploading as it seems the photos are to big to load more than one at a time. Is there an easier way to upload photos here???
[file]36664[/file] [file]36662[/file]
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mbira
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
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well I will try again to load some photos
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mbira
Oud Lover
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and a few more...
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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oh man... that's in rough shape.
I mean, its not an impossible restoration but the large crack in the ribs, the missing inlays and high action make it almost like a salvage.
It needs several hours of work, probably 80+ hours & materials. The longest part would be replicating and repairing the inlays.
only you can decide how much this oud is worth but it will need a lot to repair it appropriately.
Brian, I am not allowed to buy any more ouds. I was only offering my expertise to repair it.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
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That looks like a nice traditional woodworker's bench the oud is sitting on for the original images. Are you a luthier or an experienced fine
woodworker who has the skill but not the time or interest to undertake a restoration yourself?
Full face, side and end images - taken at a distance to minimise optical distortion and then cropped to size would be of interest - as well as more
details of the damaged tiles around the sound board. Also details of the bridge and plectrum guard (that appears to be separating from the sound
board?).
Are the plain strings nylon or gut?
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
Location: Holy Land
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Gentlemen !
Let us be realistic. Does this oud worth an investment of 80 +- hours repair ? It's Garabet's oud after all. Not a big deal, with due respect.
I have seen and tried several Sempat's ouds, that sounded and felt very convincing, but never had the same effect with his son's ... both RIP. It
seems that Garabet was more fond of inlays and finishes, but never focused on sound. Therefore all his ouds sounded almost the same, often very .. aaa
.... well, I don't want to sound so prejudiced.
Here's a Garabet's oud that was offered for sale for 2500$ somewhere, sometime ago. Can't recall. It looks in a perfect original condition, not
restored nor repaired. The label says made in Beirut while the rosette says in Damascus. It seems that Garabet worked for sometime in Lebanon, but
soon returned to Syria, died in 2009 and was burried in Damascus.
Pls pay attention: This oud has the serial number 8125 while the oud in issue is numbered 7850, both are from 1955. Was Garabed capable of making 275
ouds per year ? Well, this should be detected. Something went wrong in one of them.
Briefly, I would make general overall repairs on the outside and hang it on a wall. It shall look fantastic
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
[file]36698[/file] [file]36700[/file] [file]36706[/file] [file]36708[/file] [file]36710[/file] [file]36712[/file] [file]36714[/file]
[file]36716[/file]
mbira : Pls change the topic to 1955
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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mbira
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
Registered: 9-1-2015
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Hi jdowning, no that is not my bench, it belongs to a local luthier who would have the skills to restore it and he may be interested it doing just
that.
I have a bag with some of the missing inlays ... just have to find it.
The strings appear to be nylon.
I will try to take the requested photos tomorrow. thanks for your response.
| Quote: Originally posted by jdowning | That looks like a nice traditional woodworker's bench the oud is sitting on for the original images. Are you a luthier or an experienced fine
woodworker who has the skill but not the time or interest to undertake a restoration yourself?
Full face, side and end images - taken at a distance to minimise optical distortion and then cropped to size would be of interest - as well as more
details of the damaged tiles around the sound board. Also details of the bridge and plectrum guard (that appears to be separating from the sound
board?).
Are the plain strings nylon or gut? |
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mbira
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
Registered: 9-1-2015
Member Is Offline
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Yes it has seen better days. I believe I have some of the missing inlays. Thanks for your input on what it would need.
| Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada | oh man... that's in rough shape.
I mean, its not an impossible restoration but the large crack in the ribs, the missing inlays and high action make it almost like a salvage.
It needs several hours of work, probably 80+ hours & materials. The longest part would be replicating and repairing the inlays.
only you can decide how much this oud is worth but it will need a lot to repair it appropriately.
Brian, I am not allowed to buy any more ouds. I was only offering my expertise to repair it. |
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mbira
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
Registered: 9-1-2015
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You never know this might be his best one.
Where did you see that serial # on my oud?
| Quote: Originally posted by Alfaraby | Gentlemen !
Let us be realistic. Does this oud worth an investment of 80 +- hours repair ? It's Garabet's oud after all. Not a big deal, with due respect.
I have seen and tried several Sempat's ouds, that sounded and felt very convincing, but never had the same effect with his son's ... both RIP. It
seems that Garabet was more fond of inlays and finishes, but never focused on sound. Therefore all his ouds sounded almost the same, often very .. aaa
.... well, I don't want to sound so prejudiced.
Here's a Garabet's oud that was offered for sale for 2500$ somewhere, sometime ago. Can't recall. It looks in a perfect original condition, not
restored nor repaired. The label says made in Beirut while the rosette says in Damascus. It seems that Garabet worked for sometime in Lebanon, but
soon returned to Syria, died in 2009 and was burried in Damascus.
Pls pay attention: This oud has the serial number 8125 while the oud in issue is numbered 7850, both are from 1955. Was Garabed capable of making 275
ouds per year ? Well, this should be detected. Something went wrong in one of them.
Briefly, I would make general overall repairs on the outside and hang it on a wall. It shall look fantastic
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
mbira : Pls change the topic to 1955 |
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2938
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Arabic numerals that look (sort of) like v^o. = 7850
I am not so pessimistic as our friend Alfaraby, but the damage is far worse than I had thought from the original photos. It would be nice to see such
a beautiful old oud restored, but it will be a big undertaking.
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