dario
Oud Maniac
Posts: 55
Registered: 3-27-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Dzage Bunch
Hi all,
I was wondering if the Armenian tune Dzage Bunch/Dzaghe Poonch (Bunch of Flowers - ծաղ ե փունջ
according to the google translate) has words, and if so, if anyone knows a recording with a singer? I am only aware of the instrumental versions by
Berberian, Hagopian, Mgrdichian etc.
Berberian version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVcnbLIofGA
I love this 10/8 rhythm, it's taken me ages to understand but now I can't stop humming it! I've also written out the melody if anyone's interested.
Attachment: Dzage_Bunch.pdf (127kB)
This file has been downloaded 324 times
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
Dario, I am 95% sure there are no lyrics to Dzaghge Pounch. Btw the correct spelling is
ծաղկեփունջ. They write Dzaghe Pounch instead of Dzagh-ge Pounch because it's easier to
write and say.
Dzaghge Pounch is an instrumental piece written by Soviet-Armenian kanunist Khachatur Avetisyan. The original was in 6/8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUMmrHWGqpI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3B53HOfJ_-k
Armenian-American musicians of Anatolian descent typically take slow 6/8 pieces from Russian Armenia and play them in 10/8. You might ask why they
would take an easier rhythm and make it harder. The answer is that the typical folk dances from the regions of Kharpert (Harput-Elazig), Malatya,
Diyarbakir and Erzurum where many Armenian-Americans descend from, are usually in the 10/8 rhythm. In the mind of the Armenian immigrants from Turkey
and their children, it sounded more natural for a slow or medium slow Armenian song in 6/8, to be in 10/8. The two rhythms have a similar feel
actually as you can hear in the above videos. Unless the song is a 9/8 tamzara, a 7/8 laz bar, or a 5/8 daldala, the majority of dance songs from that
area are in 4/4, 2/4, or 10/8. I believe its the same not just in the Armenian community but the Turkish community in that region as well (as one
would expect). The Assyrians who live in the region of Harput and Diyarbakir and points south also use the 10/8 rhythm. Not sure about the Kurds.
|
|
|
dario
Oud Maniac
Posts: 55
Registered: 3-27-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
Wow, thanks for an extremely interesting and thorough reply. I have recently been wondering how this music changed as it crossed the Atlantic since I
only know it from the American kef guys.
|
|
|
dario
Oud Maniac
Posts: 55
Registered: 3-27-2014
Member Is Offline
|
|
So are the 6/8 and 10/8 versions danced the same despite being from different places? Because as you say, the feel of both is very similar, and
they're both slow step - fast step - fast step - slow step; maybe this is a better way to think of than strict time signatures. That's definitely the
case in Greek music, because if you play a 9/8 karsilama to a metronome it sounds rushed, the slow step is I guess slightly longer than 1.5 times the
fast step...
|
|
|
maran
Oud Junkie
Posts: 103
Registered: 9-23-2003
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
there is so much music in this time signature. here's some more:
https://youtu.be/lhNCR3aYSEk
https://youtu.be/wsJeiKa6Kr8
https://youtu.be/sQFmk_SoKek
https://youtu.be/zFSNNpnktBQ
https://youtu.be/UB8yQp5R4MY
https://youtu.be/_8oNeRbGR4I
and i have been told this is an iraqi song
https://youtu.be/3ZN2AGl9juw
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
Dario there are many different dances that are used with these two time signatures. It's one of the most common in Armenian music. The dancing shown
in the video I posted is not regular Armenian social folk dancing however. It is stage choreographed "folk" dance. The Armenian dance troupes very
rarely use the music American Armenians play. They use Soviet era music mainly. The "American kef" dzaghge pounce in 10/8 might be danced with either
a plain "bar" which is the pan-Armenian dance step, or the "Armenian Shuffle" which is an Armenian American creation of social folk dance that
developed in the states, neither of those are pictured in the video. In the states generally you would not have the slow 6/8 played for social
dancing, neither would you in Armenia most likely. It inhabits two different worlds and they just took a melody they liked and adapted it into an
entirely different genre within Armenian music. I will say that I know in some places slow 6/8 used to be played for a social dance, I imagine they
could use the same steps. I am not entirely familiar with dance culture in modern Armenia as it's very different and is actually practiced somewhat
less due to modernization as the Armenian American community remained "frozen in time" after 1915. Also I should say both time signatures are used by
some people for solo dancing. This isn't the case in Detroit but I understand in many parts of the old country and modern Armenian this is so. An
example is the famous Naz Bar in 10/8 also played in 6/8 which is an example of Armenian women's solo dance.
|
|
|
Mehran
Oud Junkie
Posts: 210
Registered: 4-27-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
It could be this one.
Salima Pasha Murad
https://soundcloud.com/qatar-digital-library/025a-9cs0025050xx-0002a...
This rhythm is very popular in Iraqi/Baghdadi songs
|
|
|
sylvainbd
Oud Junkie
Posts: 404
Registered: 6-7-2005
Location: France - Nantes
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sylent
|
|
For me, this 10/8 is a curcuna 3+2+2+3 ... may be i am wrong !
http://www.maqamworld.com/rhythms/muwashahat3.html#jurjina
And
http://www.tousauxbalkans.net/Catégorie:10/8_(3-2-2-3)
|
|
|
Mehran
Oud Junkie
Posts: 210
Registered: 4-27-2006
Member Is Offline
|
|
Yes its jurjina rhythm
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
