jdowning
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Lute plectrum-finger technique?
Peppe Frana is a guitar player who studied Turkish oud and other related instruments before his research into the European medieval lute performance
at the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis in Switzerland. Here he is playing a piece transcribed from the Lochamer- Liederbuch dated circa 1450.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGrUJvWYR90
His right hand technique entails plucking with a plectrum or risha as well as using his fingertips. I doubt if there are any surviving instructions on
playing the lute from that period so am curious to know if this is a traditional technique still used today by oud players and so has been adapted for
modern performances of early European lute?
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John Erlich
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Quote: Originally posted by jdowning  | Peppe Frana is a guitar player who studied Turkish oud and other related instruments before his research into the European medieval lute performance
at the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis in Switzerland. Here he is playing a piece transcribed from the Lochamer- Liederbuch dated circa 1450.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGrUJvWYR90
His right hand technique entails plucking with a plectrum or risha as well as using his fingertips. I doubt if there are any surviving instructions on
playing the lute from that period so am curious to know if this is a traditional technique still used today by oud players and so has been adapted for
modern performances of early European lute? |
If you don't get any useful answers from this forum, may I suggest asking on the Facebook Oud, Lute & Barbat Club? https://www.facebook.com/groups/308014863173986 I suggest that one specifically, because it's one of the few which has both significant numbers
of ME/NA oud players AND European lutenists.
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John Erlich
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| Quote: Originally posted by John Erlich | | Quote: Originally posted by jdowning | Peppe Frana is a guitar player who studied Turkish oud and other related instruments before his research into the European medieval lute performance
at the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis in Switzerland. Here he is playing a piece transcribed from the Lochamer- Liederbuch dated circa 1450.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGrUJvWYR90
His right hand technique entails plucking with a plectrum or risha as well as using his fingertips. I doubt if there are any surviving instructions on
playing the lute from that period so am curious to know if this is a traditional technique still used today by oud players and so has been adapted for
modern performances of early European lute? |
If you don't get any useful answers from this forum, may I suggest asking on the Facebook Oud, Lute & Barbat Club? https://www.facebook.com/groups/308014863173986 I suggest that one specifically, because it's one of the few which has both significant numbers
of ME/NA oud players AND European lutenists. |
Also, the Medieval Lute Forum, which appears to have that very performer as an Administrator: https://www.facebook.com/groups/315731758447809
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jdowning
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Thank you for the links John. I will try to contact Peppe Frana directly for his comment and observations later - to be reported back here for
information.
The early lute in Europe - prior to the 16th C - was essentially a fretted oud - so presumably was played in a manner copied from oud players of the
era i.e. with a plectrum or risha. By the early 16th C in Europe the plectrum had been abandoned in favour of 'finger style' - plucking the strings
with fingertips - initially with the hand moving as if holding a risha (a.k.a. 'thumb under' technique).
This combined technique used by Peppe Frana suggests a transition between plectrum and finger style playing. From a historical perspective I am
interested to know if this technique was ever used by oud players and if some oud players today might still be following that method? If not on the
oud was it ever used on other related middle eastern plucked instruments of the period?
All comments from forum members would be welcome.
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Ronny Andersson
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I have never encountered anyone who plays oud like Peppe Frana, but today there are many who use classical guitar finger plucking on oud. The finger
plucking style used by Bashir was mostly a simple type of bordun.
| Quote: Originally posted by jdowning | Peppe Frana is a guitar player who studied Turkish oud and other related instruments before his research into the European medieval lute performance
at the Schola Cantorum Basiliensis in Switzerland. Here he is playing a piece transcribed from the Lochamer- Liederbuch dated circa 1450.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGrUJvWYR90
His right hand technique entails plucking with a plectrum or risha as well as using his fingertips. I doubt if there are any surviving instructions on
playing the lute from that period so am curious to know if this is a traditional technique still used today by oud players and so has been adapted for
modern performances of early European lute? |
Best wishes
Ronny
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jdowning
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Thank you Ronny
There is a response to my question by Pepe Frana now on the Youtube link.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGrUJvWYR90
He confirms that the technique was developed by Crawford Young(Schola Cantorum Basiliensis in Switzerland) as a speculation on how a lute player of
the 15th C using a plectrum might be able to play counterpoint.
So it is a convincing transitional technique from plectrum to early 16th C fingerstyle playing.
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jdowning
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For information here is an example of the early lute 'thumb under' technique where the thumb and first finger alternately pluck the strings in place
of a plectrum. See Paul O'Dette (on the right in the video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKfl3i7Gz4Q
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jdowning
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I imagine that this is an example of oud players using fingers as well as risha that Ronny is referring to?
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=18612
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stavros
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Very interesting tecnique. I don't know any oud player using it. I think the thumb is often used with the same logic, as plectrum.
Raed Koshaba https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4SFmspZVZI)
Peppe's right hand also immediately reminded me of the way the turkish saz players knock on the instrument while playing the melody, keeping the
rythm.
Here I am using both fingers and plectrum, but not at once!
https://www.facebook.com/100008498648763/videos/2304149183211681
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suz_i_dil
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this is very interesting subject ! And i love the record you shared
Never seen such a technique from an oud player, all times i have seen finger use as to widen the range of sound and possiblilities, like i hear in
Ahmad Al Khatib style sometimes, but usually just as an embellishment (like in the opening of khudni maak, take me along ) or full finger technique
piece like in one of Nasseer Shamma (from Assyria to Sevilla)
But never seen such a thing on oud like on this very nice record.
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jdowning
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Thankyou for the comments and examples guys.
I had since forgotten but about 12 years ago I posted a comment on this forum with reference to a right hand technique for the oud dating from the
10th C where the strings are struck alternately with thumb and first finger to perform the earliest kind of polyphonic music - a continued parallel
movement of voices in fifths or fourths known as 'organum' in the West (or 'tarkib' in Arabic). This is described on page 13 of 'The Arab
Contribution to Music of the Western World' by Dr Rabah Saoud here:
https://muslimheritage.com/uploads/Music2.pdf
This being the case Pepe Frana might also have performed the piece using the early 16th C lute 'thumb inside' technique demonstrated by Paul O'Dette
(previously posted) as an authentic alternative? It wouldn't sound the same , of course, and I still admire the combined plectrum- finger style
technique demonstrated by Pepe Frana.
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suz_i_dil
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flirting a bit with off topic, but made me think also of this player living in France, Salvador Paterna
He is playing thumb technic :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKZwYKIU4Kg
i would not assume is for any historical reason. I guess it his way because he is flamenco guitar player. But maybe a fact in the topic, i don't know
about the history of flamenco and its sources on right hand technique
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