Jonathan
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Rib bending
I have been talking to a few people about my plans to make an oud (so far, the ribs are cut into blanks, and the mould is almost done), and I was told
about this approach to rib bending, which I had not heard of before. Soak the rib blanks thoroughly, thoroughly, thoroughly in water, then clamp it
to a piece of metal that has been bent to match the curvature of the oud bowl. Keep the clamps and wood in place on the metal frame until the wood is
thoroughly dry, and then, when the clamps are removed, the wood will be the correct shape.
I have never heard of this approach before.
Any thoughts?
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Jameel
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I've tried it. I let the ribs soak for several hours (actually accidentally). The ribs never get flexible enough, and the extended water soak isn't
the best thing for the wood. There's really only one way to do it and that's with a bending iron. Even when you use the iron, the rib is going to
spring open a bit as it cools, and you'll need to re-bend the rib slightly again to make it the perfect shape. I suppose you might be able to save
some time by steaming the ribs and then clamping them quick to a form, then you'd only have to re-bend them on the iron. Plus, you'd have to make the
steamer and forms, but a homemade iron like mine and Doc's and Jay's is quick and easy (and cheap) to make. But as a beginner I'd just use the iron.
You'll need the experience anyway. Once you bend a couple ribs, you'll get the hang of it and it won't go so slowly. There also other ways to bend,
like with a heating blanket, or with a special bending jig like guitar makers use for sides. The same could be made for an oud rib, but since there
are so many ribs in an oud (but only 2 sides to a guitar) you wouldn't save much time, unless you had a ridiculously wide side bender (like 3 feet) or
just wanted to bend a couple ribs at once (you have to let them sit in the side bender until they are completely cool, and even then they will
springback). Also, take a look at MIMF.com for a wealth of info. Give us some pics, eh?
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Jonathan
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Oh, man, I feel myself getting in over my head with this project, but if I drown, I will at least go kicking. Thanks, Jameel. Wood is cut, mould is
almost, almost done (just a little fine tuning with a file tomorrow). Then, I will make the heating lamp. I will try post some pics soon. The
problem is, once I post pics, I will sort of feel compelled to finish the project, and I just know that this is going to take me a long, long time.
Thanks for your help.
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Jameel
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Jonathan,
Keep with it. It will be worth it. However, you might find at the end that you enjoyed the process itself more than the final result. I know I do.
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oudmaker
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Jonathan
Never use water to help your rib bending
Few years later they will be out of shape. I have been told by the people whose ribs are still in shape after 53 years.
Dincer
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Dr. Oud
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| Quote: | Originally posted by oudmaker
Jonathan
Never use water to help your rib bending
Few years later they will be out of shape. I have been told by the people whose ribs are still in shape after 53 years.
Dincer |
With all due and considerable respect I don't believe it is the water than causes distorsion of the wood, rather it is unseasoned wood that dries out
after it is used. There are oils and the natural sap that remain in the wood until it is air-dried or aged for a year or more. I have made ouds that
are 30 years old now using the water soak method, and they are fine. I have learned that it is unecessary to soak the wood and in the case of some
woods no moisture is required at all to bend the rib over a hot form. Soaking is just a waste of time and energy, but if the wood is seasoned for at
least a year or more before being used, it won't matter. I prefer to use wood that has air dried for at least 2-3 years, so I am always buying wood
for the future. Harder woods like rosewood and ebony take longer to season and may require hot water to soften them for bending. (my experience
anyway).
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bcearthtones
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Hi Jonathan,
You mentioned that you are using curly maple? If you soak curly maple for more than a minute or two, it tends to 'unravel' (or swell unevenly)
making it weaker for bending. The grain also runs out in BOTH directions (something to watch for scraping the staves, to avoid tearing out the
grain). One other thing that is tricky with curly maple is it likes to create 'hard spots', where the grain runs out, while bending (and if you don't
go slow, this is where it will snap).
With patience it can be used with great results, it certainly looks great on a finished instrument. I mention this so you will know what to expect
with figured wood and work carefully.
Best of luck with your project,
Scott
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Jonathan
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Thanks for the info. I picked two really difficult woods for a beginner, I am sure. A flame maple without too much flame, and a lacewood. I know
the contrast between the two woods is going to require that I use a lot of care, not to mention the trouble with bending these woods. But, what the
heck, I will go slow and see what happens. If it proves too difficult, I will switch to something else. The wood cut up well, though, and seems
fairly bendable. Who knows, though, I am a complete beginner. Here's a shot of the raw wood--I didn't photograph the ribs yet.
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Jonathan
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I guess I will start a new thread in the Projects section in a couple of days, but, for now, here are the strips. If I can pull this off, I think
that they will look good together.
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Jonathan
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Thank you all for the advice. I am sure I will be asking for more of it soon enough.
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Jameel
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Beautiful wood, Jonathan. It will make a fantastic back. Take your time. Your ribs look great. Just a little sauce and some
coleslaw....uh....ehem.....is it getting close to dinner time? 
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Jonathan
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Thanks, Jameel. I was just looking through Dr. Ouds book again, and see that he notes that maple is a bit tough to bend. I have a lot of extra ribs
(maybe staves is the better word).
I am going to shoot for 21 ribs (11 lacewood, 10 maple), and I cut 18 lacewoods and 20 maples. We'll see.
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Dr. Oud
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| Quote: | | Originally posted by Jonathan....I was just looking through Dr. Ouds book again, and see that he notes that maple is a bit tough to bend. I
have a lot of extra ribs (maybe staves is the better word)... |
I have recently learned (I guess you're never to old or know enough) that violin makers use only heat to bend flame maple. They use a bending tool
made of sheet metal with wood stops at each end that captures the workpiece and supports it while bending. Then they just go at it over a hot form
like the rest of us. -Like the Carpenter of Eugene once said "too soon old, too late smart" or something...My problem with bending was with birdseye
maple. I recall seeing many types of figured maple (quilted, spalted, etc.) used for the back of violins, but the sides were always straight grained
flamed maple, with the grain running lengthwise along the side and the flame across the width.
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