billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
|
|
roses - do they identify a luthier?
clumsy question but does anyone know if specific rose designs can indicate who made an oud?
i saw an oud for sale on french ebay just recently and the roses perfectly matched the ones on my mouhad al turki oud.
thanks - bill
|
|
|
amtaha
Oud Junkie
Posts: 342
Registered: 1-30-2006
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: beginner's frustration ...
|
|
I haven't seen or sudied much roses (rosettes?), or ouds for that matter, but if they're anything like calligraphy, then it's probably the case that
you have a certain design or feature or "print" that origniated from a certain person or a group of people in some place at some time, and this
element then gets embedded in the mainstream art ...
Perhaps someone can enlighten us whether there are any documentation regarding this matter. My judgement is that, as with most other oud related
stuff, the "documented" history would probably be an oral ..
An interesting question, though, whether there is such a thing as a rose artist - someone dedicated just to their design and work.
|
|
|
Jonathan
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1583
Registered: 7-27-2004
Location: Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I don't know much about this, but certain styles always suggest certain makers to me. All the later Karibyans used the same style, for example (see
below--1964, 1967). When I see that style, I immediately think of him, although there are others that used a similar pattern. Still, when I see this
pattern, I first think Karibyan.
Kyvelos has his own pattern. So does Najarian, and many others. This would be a great thread to continue to develop. I hope others can add
examples.
|
|
|
billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
|
|
posted the same question to the lute list - apparently there were craftsmen in europe who specialized in making nothing but lute roses. i know of
modern craftsmen who specialize in quite elaborate, multi-tiered roses made from bleached parchment.
retrieved my 2nd - cheapy syrian - oud from the luthier today (i got this oud from my wife one xmas and the first thing i did was to remove the ever
so tasteful plastic, clef shaped roses) he says he distinguishes each instrument he makes with a unique rose. this could indicate either a very low
annual output or a substantial number, each with a rose only slightly different than the last ... i thought it indelicate to ask which.
i would have thought that arabic writing would lend itself easily to rose making on ouds - creating a trademark or brand-name association. most of
the ouds i've seen have roses added - not like european lutes with roses being an integral part of the sound board.
if anyone has a mourad al-turki oud and would care to post pictures of them, showing the roses, i'd be very curious to see if they match the ones on
mine.
- bill
|
|
|
aytayfun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 201
Registered: 1-28-2006
Location: Türkiye
Member Is Offline
Mood: luthier and player
|
|
I think for Manol.
There is a special rese design. Here is a sample.He used this design for several ouds he made.
Dr. Tayfun AYDIN
|
|
|
Jonathan
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1583
Registered: 7-27-2004
Location: Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Another Manol, same rose pattern
|
|
|
Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Jonathan
Another Manol, same rose pattern |
The rose pattern seen on these Manols was also used by Hamza Usta and Karibyan as well. The Nahat family ouds used a variety of roses, some with the maker's name carved in the center, some not. They all are characterized by their delicate
design with the complete maquam roses boggling the imagination. Many makers use a characteristic design, but others don't. Myself, I've made each of
my ouds with a different design just to give each one a unique appearance and avoid the appearance of any mass produced elements. There's a collection
of roses on Pablo's Oud Page
|
|
|
Jonathan
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1583
Registered: 7-27-2004
Location: Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Doc--are a lot of them mass-produced? The later Karibyans have the same pattern, and are plastic. I am not trying to minimize his brilliant ouds.
And, I have no problems with plastic for the rosettes at all. But were these simply stamped out?
I really love the rosette on that 1975 oud of yours that you have posted. Unlike any other rosette I have seen. Elegant.
|
|
|
Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
|
|
I've seen some roses that were molded plastic, and I know some makers outsource them to sweatshops full of slave laborers in Pakistan, (probably I
really don't know where). That 1978 rose is ivory glued onto a 3 layer lamination of walnut veneers, and it's all warped and crooked now. I kinda
like it that way, it looks more organic. It took me 2 days to make if I recall. It's a grapevine pattern taken from on old Dicran Najarian I once had,
(sigh)except I tried to make ibis birds in the center. It looks a little like the JAL logo though...
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
