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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Jonathan
Wow.
Jameel, can you explain your approach to gluing in the purfling? I used purfling on that first bowl I made, and I thought it was a bit
problematic--difficult to work with, the problem of residual glue, etc. Are you inserting the purfling at the same time as you glue in the adjacent
rib?
Your right--the machine bender works great for the purfling. I used painter tape and put together a band of 15 purfling strips, and it worked great.
With the tape I was able to get them to stay tightly together, so there was no twisting. And, surprisingly, no significant residue.
Should steamed wood be avoided, then? Does it lose its figure? I have some steamed pear that I was tempted to use, but I would rather waste the wood
than go through the effort of making a bowl that is unsatisfactory.
The sham is amazing, Jameel. |
You're familiar with my rib-fitting procedure from my last oud--the cherry bowl. So once the rib is fit to my satisfaction (side I'm about to glue fit
to previous rib and opposite side planed and sanded flat) I bend my purfling (since its opened up a little since it came out of the bender) so it
matches real nice and rub a bead of glue along the previous rib that's on the mould. I do this with the mould swung around so that edge of the rib is
facing up--just makes it easy to apply the glue. When I have a nice little bead of glue---no need to slather it up, just a little is fine--you only
want little beads of squeeze out--not a line of dripping glue--I place the spacer on the rib on the mould and press it in place a little with my
fingers. Just enough to get it stuck. Then I swing the mould back around so the spacer is facing me (bowl is now with the arch up and the flat face
down) and I quickly run another little bead of glue on the loose rib edge and at the neck and tail block areas. The rib already has strapping tape all
along it so I dont have to take time to apply this while gluing. Then I place the rib on the mould and press it into the purfling and pull tight with
the tape. Press in the push pins at the blocks and check to make sure everything is lined up--especially making sure the spacer is not sunk into the
bowl, but is protruding a little. That's it. It would be less hectic maybe to get everything fit then glue the spacer to the loose rib and wrap with
string. Let dry for a half hour or so then glue that to the previous rib. But by the time I've got everything fit, I don't feel like waiting for that
spacer to dry, so I just wing it and do both at once. It's not bad really. Just have everything set up and close at hand.
Steamed wood isn't necessarily bad, I just don't like steamed walnut for ouds because of the color issues, and other issues with it that I might not
be aware of. I'd rather have it be just dried. I did bend some walnut from this billet with a spritz of water (steam when it hit the iron) to see what
happened, and it definitely changed its color. Bending walnut dry is pretty easy anyway...
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journeyman
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Incredible work as always Jameel! Is there a concern when choosing two types of wood; one for the ribs and one for the purfling, in terms of density
or elasticity? I have an oud that uses mahogany for the ribs and a light coloured wood for the purfling (it could be maple) and I have had problems
with the seams separating in the winter. I was told that in my case the mahogany and the wood used for the purfling were not a good match due to the
difference in density, absorption, elasticity etc., and probably resulted in this problem which will most likely happen again. Any comments on
this?
Thanks,
Roy
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Mazin
Oud Lover
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WELL DONE JAMEEL, CONG MIKE
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meazaf
Oud Lover
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i just registered in this great fourm hello to every one and u jameel u the best and congratulation to mike for his oud, 
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Jameel
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| Quote: | Originally posted by journeyman
Incredible work as always Jameel! Is there a concern when choosing two types of wood; one for the ribs and one for the purfling, in terms of density
or elasticity? I have an oud that uses mahogany for the ribs and a light coloured wood for the purfling (it could be maple) and I have had problems
with the seams separating in the winter. I was told that in my case the mahogany and the wood used for the purfling were not a good match due to the
difference in density, absorption, elasticity etc., and probably resulted in this problem which will most likely happen again. Any comments on
this?
Thanks,
Roy |
I don't think it matters so much. I mean, yeah, there could be issues with wood movement and some swelling issues, but as long as everything stays
together, what's the harm? It would seem to me to be mostly an aesthetic issue. I suppose over several cycles, it could cause joint failure. That's a
good point. Maybe your light colored wood is really fiber? I don't have much experience with the stuff, but gut feeling tells me it would be more
prone to changes in humidity. I think in the end the best advice is to keep your oud in a controlled environment. This isn't always practical for
musicians. But for people like me, it's possible. I rarely take my oud out, and the room I keep it in stays between 40-60% year round.
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journeyman
Oud Junkie
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
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HI JAMEEL,
I was told by my our repair guy, Sabah Al-Tayyar (Saad's brother) that joining woods with too much of a difference in density could cause the
problem of separation as they absorb moisture to different degrees and when they dry out one shrinks more than the other. Being in Canada with severe
winters is probably more of an issue than living in most other climates. Central heating is a killer, even with a humidifier. Your point is of course
valid, that if the oud is kept in a controlled environment this is not an issue. I was curious to get your opinion before I buy another oud.
I'm sure I speak for everyone when I say that I can't wait to see your next project.
All the best,
Roy
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Jameel
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Roy,
Yeah, I would have to agree with Al-Tayyar. When I said I don't think it matters so much I was mainly talking if a person takes care to monitor the
ouds environment. But you're right, winters are brutal. There is a high-end guitar shop here in town (and our winters are cold enough to pose humidity
problems) that keep the showroom at 50-60% year round. The windows are constantly fogged, and when you walk in from the cold, it feels like your
entering a sauna. I can't wait to see my next project done either! I like building them, but finishing them is the best part. I made some progress
recently, I'm sure Mike will post something soon....
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Mike
Super Administrator
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Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
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The Rosettes are Done!
We got an update!
Jameel tells me he's got 4 more ribs to go and the bowl will be done...his least favorite part of making an oud.
The Finished Rosettes
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
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mmm, what lovely rosettes, the icing on the cake!
what material are they made of?
Also, welcome to the forum meazaf!
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Roy, could you please email me Sabah's number or email
at samir_nassif@hotmail.com
thanks a bunch.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Jameel!! Jameel!! Jameel!!
Iam not just saying your name Iam using it to describe
how impressed Iam with the Shamsiya and qamarat.
thanks for the updates.
what does the main rosette say?
Mike... alf mabrouk
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Beas.One
Oud Maniac
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These are just perfect! The detail is amazing. I am becoming more and more jealous.
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Ararat66
Oud Junkie
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Hi Jameel
That rosette is amazing, you're a great craftsman - what is your process for cutting?
Brilliant stuff
Leon
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Jameel
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Thanks fellas.
I'm enjoying this project, even though it's been the most challenging one yet. The new bowl shape I'm using is tricky to make, but should be very
nice, very "Nahat-ish".
Mike has also been a real sport in letting me know what exactly he wants on this oud. Trouble is, everytime I ask him for some money, all I get is a bunch of poker chips.....
| Quote: | Originally posted by MatthewW
mmm, what lovely rosettes, the icing on the cake!
what material are they made of?
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Bone, with a 3-ply walnut backing
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Alan
Oud Junkie
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Absolutely fantastic! Those rosettes are amazing. You are a luck guy Mike. Mabruck to you on your new oud and to Jameel, you sir are master artist.
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PrinceAbigor
Oud Lover
Posts: 24
Registered: 2-17-2006
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Truly amazing. I don't think I would have lasted through making the rosette! Such attention to detail is definately admirable.
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excentrik
Oud Junkie
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Jameel.
Dude.
You rock.
tarik
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Jameel
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Thanks guys. Lets' hope this one sounds as nice as it looks....
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Melbourne
Oud Junkie
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Mike you need to play more poker my friend....so we can see this more of this oud coming along
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Mike
Super Administrator
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Major Update
Looks like our friend Jameelo has been a busy dude lately. Look what he's been up to. 
One more rib to go...
The finished bowl...I think it turned out awesome!
I knew I wanted to incorporate the parallelogram design in the tail end piece, but Jameel and I didn't like that there was too much space on the top
of the semi-circle. So we eventually decided to make it an exact half circle and widen the diameter. This pretty much allowed the paralleogram to fall
right in the center of the tail piece inlay.
Here's a mock up of the parallelogram with a semi-circle with too much empty space on top.
Here we were looking to see what it would look like without a geometric design. No go.
Final tail piece - half circle - inlaid but without the parallelogram. Picture coming soon.
For the inlay on the bowl, I wanted to keep it relatively simple. We decided to go with a long central inlay design on the center rib and two
parallelograms on each side. It's a design I have seen on Nahats before.
Here are the inlays prepped and all ready to go.
Applying the inlays to the bowl. Not bad, eh?
One last shot of Jameelo doing his thing.
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ALAMI
Oud Junkie
Posts: 645
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MY GOD ! The alien is sucking Jameel's brain !
It is the most beautiful serie I've ever watched on a screen.
Amazing work
Waiting for the happy ending.
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Melbourne
Oud Junkie
Posts: 354
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Location: Mlebourne, Australia
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Wow amazing as usual - good to see that you've adopted the small strip of white in between the ribs Jameel - it really adds to the beauty of the bowl!
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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What brain??? You mean there's supposed to be something up there? 
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
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Authorities baffled, magic suspected
The jaw-droppingly gorgeous work I've come to expect! Thanks for the in-process pictures; they keep me humble.
I got out my big ol' compass and ruler, figuring rib widths and arcs, and all I can say is that it appears that we're pressing ever deeper into
eggshell territory. How thick do you imagine the finished ribs will be? Are the inlays more or less paper-thin, then?
A) It can't be done; B) It's magic. Applause! 
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by carpenter
The jaw-droppingly gorgeous work I've come to expect! Thanks for the in-process pictures; they keep me humble.
I got out my big ol' compass and ruler, figuring rib widths and arcs, and all I can say is that it appears that we're pressing ever deeper into
eggshell territory. How thick do you imagine the finished ribs will be? Are the inlays more or less paper-thin, then?
A) It can't be done; B) It's magic. Applause! |
Jim,
These ribs are just over 2mm. The inlay is just under 2mm, and the inlay mortise is just over 1mm. So I end up with inlay that's just about 1mm thick
when it's all said and done. I have the ribs scraped nice when I go to do the inlay so there isnt much to remove later. I just set my bit depth for
1+mm and go for it. Something slipped in one of these little areas (I'm not telling!) and I routed a little deeper than I should have, so when I went
to clean up the edge with my chisel, I punched through in one small spot. Okay, don't tell Mike!! Seriously though, once the inlay was glued, all was
fine. Hey, nobody's perfect.
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