patheslip
Oud Junkie
Posts: 160
Registered: 5-24-2008
Location: Welsh Marches
Member Is Offline
Mood: smooth
|
|
pegs and strings
Hi again. This is another appeal to the collective wisdom of the forum.
I'm confused as to which pegs go with which strings. The oud I bought was strung at random with strings crossing all over the place. Is there any
harm in just stringing in order? Otherwise tuning will be a nightmare: I'll need a look up table to know which peg goes with which strings.
If it's a bad idea to do this is there a simple order which will keep the oud in balance and keep me sane?
|
|
|
Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=2940#pid190...
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=1048&pa...
Google is your friend...
|
|
|
jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Patheslip raises an interesting question - "is there any harm in just stringing in order".
I think that the answer to that must be no. 'Stringing in order' works for lutes and so will work for ouds as well.
An oud with double curved pegbox seems to be standard practice today - with the centre-line of the peg holes following the curvature of the pegbox.
Jameel notes that Dincer drills the peg holes more or less in a straight line in a double curved oud peg box.
Interestingly, at one time - in the not too distant past - oud peg boxes - like lute pegboxes, were 'straight'. As an example, the attached image
shows an engraving of an oud, recorded by the failed Napoleon Bonaparte expedition to Egypt of 1798. The pegs in the engraving are numbered but,
unfortunately, it is impossible to determine from this low resolution image if the pegs are numbered in sequence or follow some other arrangement. If
anyone has access to the beautiful and monumental original "Description de l'Egypte' published in 1802 by the Imperial Press, on order of the French
Emperor, confirmation of the peg numbering would be of historical interest.
Perhaps the way oud pegboxes are strung today is the way lutes once were strung - not 'in order' as I and other modern lutenists assume?
|
|
|
jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
This is only one historical data point but the lute depicted in "The Ambassadors" painting by Hans Holbein, 1533 (London national Gallery) clearly
shows that the peg box string arrangement is 'in order' and not like that of a modern oud with double curved peg box and with 'out of order'
stringing.
Perhaps the oud 'out of order' pegbox stringing was introduced at the same time as the double curved pegbox came about - whenever that may have been?
|
|
|
farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Member Is Offline
Mood: hopeful
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by patheslip
I'll need a look up table to know which peg goes with which strings.
|
Hi patheslip!
For wrapping the strings in an order, the holes on the pegs must be placed and drilled in a way to control that order. Also the number of wraparounds
must be even (or at least must be adjusted) to keep the strings parallel.
Regards,
|
|
|
patheslip
Oud Junkie
Posts: 160
Registered: 5-24-2008
Location: Welsh Marches
Member Is Offline
Mood: smooth
|
|
Brilliant answers chaps.
There seems no reason for me to choose any particular order, as long as the strings run sweetly so I'll carry on with one I understand. It's easy
enough to drill a new hole in a peg as long as I smooth the entry.
|
|
|
Donjis3
Oud Addict
Posts: 29
Registered: 9-13-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
A quick little thx full of gratitude for showing this way to restring a oud...it was of great help for me because even my pegs where mix'up... thx for
your guidance :bowdown on!
|
|
|
rojaros
Oud Junkie
Posts: 587
Registered: 7-9-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi there, the stringing that is shown by Faruk Türünz works perfectly OK and is probabely most logical. It corresponds to the reinaissance lute
stringing.
Anyway one can grow accustomed to any sequence ;-)
best wishes
R.
|
|
|
SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
Member Is Offline
|
|
please note as Faruk said,
in order to achieve this result,
you need to have the holes made for stringing this way and you have to leave the right amount of string on each peg.
|
|
|
Donjis3
Oud Addict
Posts: 29
Registered: 9-13-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi you all!
thx for your advices Rojaros and samir!
Facts ! this was my very first attempt in changing oud strings..perhaps the strings were changed before on it but they look as if threre was some
kind of a mixed'up on somes...strings were touching each others and buzzing and were very old ...I' m ok with violin guitar etc... but was confused
with this oud  ..as said before even some pegs were not in thy right pegholes...i
have consulted some sites on this forum being so i've found thy right way to string on thy right pegs séquence and then this restrining
(faruk)séquence made sens.actually i dont know any other ways to do it...the tuning i'm using is dgadgc from bass to treble on a arabic oud...as it
is ,no string touches another at all so it can be playd very loudly no buzz...my cgda from treble to bass are string closer to the edge of the pegbox
side facing the floor and thy d and g bass to the celling side... i did so in trying to balance the pull in thy pegbox and on the rest of the oud as
well ...I dont know the pull of each strings considéring thickness and lenght but i figure that thy d bass was better off being attach to the last
peg as commonly shown...because it would have a more tone then if it was shorter and then SNAPPY...for instance ...But i'm still worry about thy over
all pull..and concern about a crossiding twisted neck possibility...in facts most of all strings are responding in a great way as it is...So if
someone has any suggestions I'd be very greatfull...Don!
|
|
|
DaveH
Oud Junkie
Posts: 526
Registered: 12-23-2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hi. Just to clarify, the stringing which Faruk shows is the standard way of stringing an oud, not the guitar/lute style. As I understand it Faruk is
using that picture to demonstrate how to keep the pegbox tidy and prevent crossing of the strings. Also as I understand it, the standard oud method is
meant to be able to do this while equalising out the tension on the two sides of the peg box, as you point out, Donjis. This system works fine for me
but I doubt the guitar/lute system would cause any problems, providing you're able to prevent strings from crossing, which usually means the string
holes have to be drilled specifically for this stringing method.
The standard oud system IS a logical one, its just that the logic is that strings from treble to bass run from the front of the pegbox to the rear,
rather than from one side to the other. Aside from equalising the tension (which I imagine is perhaps less of an issue with modern strings which don't
vary so much between bass and treble) it arguably makes more sense with such a narrow pegbox.
Just to be clear, standard oud system:
Numbering the pegs 1-11, starting from the treble side next to the neck joint and moving to the end of the pegbox, then around the end along the base
side and back to the neck joint. ie
11 10 9 8 7 6
1 2 3 4 5
Numbering the strings from treble to bass.
1st and second strings go to pegs 1&2 respectively
3rd & 4th -> pegs 11 & 10
5th & 6th -> pegs 9 & 8
7th & 8th -> pegs 3 & 4
9th & 10th -> pegs 5 & 7
11th -> peg 6.
Incidentally, which direction you wind the strings onto the pegs makes a big difference and Faruk shows how it's done to a tee. It does depend on
where the holes are drilled, but I find, similar to Faruk, that it works best for my oud if I wind pegs 1, 2, 3, 4, 10 & 11 towards the treble end
and 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9 towards the bass. I keep these directions written down, because I always forget to check before restringing.
|
|
|
DaveH
Oud Junkie
Posts: 526
Registered: 12-23-2005
Location: Birmingham, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sorry, having checked Jamil's link above, I realise my order contradicts Jameels's slightly. All I can say is this is how I was shown and it works for
the string holes in my pegs. Just goes to show there's nothing as complicated as a simple solution in this game. 
|
|
|
rojaros
Oud Junkie
Posts: 587
Registered: 7-9-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sorry, I haven't looked closely enough onto the picture. DaveH is right, it's not the lute stringing.
Still, I do use lute stringing sequence and find it quite logical and suitable. Matthias Wagner recommends it, too.
See the pic in my newest thread: http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8290
My stringing doesn't look as orderly as Faruk Türünz's, but I like to cross the strings on the peg for stability of tuning.
Another recommandation I can give is tp prestrech the strings when they are new. I take the string between the thumb and the rest of the fingers and
press the thumb in one direction and the other fingers in the oposite direction inte plane parallel to the soundboard (laterally, not away from the
soundboard) on several spots along the strings.
After pulling each string I tune it immediately to the corect pitch.
Repeating this streching and immediately tuning them to the correct pitch few times in a sequence makes the tuning stable within very short time and
also the strings develop their proper sound much faster.
|
|
|
rojaros
Oud Junkie
Posts: 587
Registered: 7-9-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
You might check out these strings: Daniel Mari strings
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=8157#pid519...
http://www.ostriesculpture.com/danielmaristrings.htm
very nice and affordable strings!
|
|
|
Donjis3
Oud Addict
Posts: 29
Registered: 9-13-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hello both of you dave and rojaros!
Your observations are very intéresting thx to dave for reasuring me with the oud stringin advice on the pull of strings tension in the pegbox ...the
back and forth tension is very intresting and the considérations aboutthe narrowness of the pegsbox on mine once all string were remouved and all
pegs reinsert in right holes i could see tha holes for string in to the pegs were quite in the middle of the pegs and centerd in the pegs box and the
pegbox it self is not that narrow has the picture shown by rojaros but moore likely has the faruk pictured one being so i could easely choose on to
wich side of the peg box i wanted to run the string + there is a vrey little ovioide encavation around the string pegs holes that allows the remaning
tip of the string to get tigh'n up by the first side to side 2 turns of the string wich i found very intéresting because instead of being only a very
even standard string hole in in the peg it is actualy becomes a some kind of a remaning tip string LOCK being so that as much as the remaining string
tip wants to come out as much it gets more likely sqweezed buy the 1 and 2 turn on both sides...CLEVER THINKIN HERE!Now and in association with dave
the photo being shown by rojaros is very intéresting as well because my first instinctive reflex would have been to string thy first bass string on
to thy closest peg to the fingerboard string peg as thy luth méthod suggest if my rojaros picture déduction is correct basicaly because into a back
and forth pegbox balance think'in it would have made sens the thicker (string)one going close to the larger and shorter lenght of tension of the
pegbox...meaning the more résistant part???Sadely I canot show pictures for now but what i did is stick'in the string into the peg string hole then
one turn to the left and then the rest to the right if i wanted to string the string trebles strings and for instance there can only be a short amont
of turns because I didint want the last turn to make the string touching the pegbox side being so one need to make sure he could push the peg itself
into the pegbox for tuning that in it sefl reduce and turns possibility and shortern's the string lenght by close to 2 inchs it mite help to get a
intune set faster...Now rojaros If i may ask have you ever tryd thy oud ways for striging cause i was wandering if you had make a observation of the
bass sustain string with the oud méthod compared to the luth one? the reason I'm ask'in is in the oud méthod the first treble one c in arabic tuning
sems to get somehow some kind of overtones not in a reverb way but more in a trémolo way that makes'it hard to get in tune I was wandering if that C
string was attach to thy last pegs if that manifestation would end...?thx to all of you this is very helpfull for me Gratitude,Don!
|
|
|
norumba
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-15-2003
Location: Taos
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
pegs and strings -- 7 course?
great thread, everyone, helps clarify some stringing issues and tips...
for folks with 7 course instruments, how are you stringing those?
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by norumba  | great thread, everyone, helps clarify some stringing issues and tips...
for folks with 7 course instruments, how are you stringing those? |
f1, c1, g1..etc are the lower strings f2 c2 g2 the uppers
[file]11246[/file]
|
|
|
AKCinBE
Oud Addict
Posts: 34
Registered: 11-12-2017
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Member Is Offline
|
|
It appears that the image Faruk posted above is no longer there. Can anybody re-post a similar image so that this very helpful threat can still be
used as a reference in the future?
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
