elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
Member Is Offline
Mood: in LOVE
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Velocity ???
guys, dont u think that velocity is the most important factor to tell how talnted the oud player is. IMO, everythime i listen to any oud player, i try
to focus is he playing the right tone when he is playing fast. there are many great oud players, but not all of them can be so accurate and fast at
the same time.
what u think about this point.
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
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Mood: big band envy
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Hi elrabee,
I definitely agree that accuracy is important, but I don't think speed really means that much when it comes to expressing emotion. I think
it's just one way of doing that.
I think we should try and be able to play anything, but not necessarily play like one player or another all the time. Accurate speed when it should
be fast, and always play emotionally, regardless of speed.
What do you (and everyone else) think?
mav
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oudman
Moderator
Posts: 359
Registered: 5-31-2003
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Mood: No Mood.
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I agree with Mav, Id rather listen to a guy that plays with feeling over a guy who has amazing speed but no feeling, any day of the week
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bluesyOud
Oud Maniac
Posts: 80
Registered: 3-3-2004
Location: Hellas
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Mood: Oudy
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I 'll agree too,every player must find his own identity,not everyone is made to be
fast not everyone is made to be slow.
Someone is black someone is white.
The emotion is the key I believe.I personally enjoy more listening to slow
things,may be because as a person I'm always in speed,in music I prefer the oposite.
Anyway everything is acceptable as long as it's real.
regards
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
Member Is Offline
Mood: in LOVE
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guys, u misundrstod me, what i mean is, if we have two oud players and both of them is good on oud, but one of them can play accurate tones even if he
is playing fast and the other is not, then the one who can play accurate tones fast he is better.
i am totaly with u when u said each oud player has to translate his emotions on oud, but i was talking about the technique of oud playing.
for example, naseer Shamma is a great oud player, and what makes him even better is that even when he is playing very fast he is playing accurate
tones. (i dont want to mention Abadi and Faarid to not call me biased  ).
i rememebr i was watching an oud player playing oud on the Syrian TV few years back and he was doing great job while he was playing slow tones, but
when he tried to play faster he lost ruined everything. this is what i m talking about. many oud players can do incredible job on oud when they are
playing slowly, but few of them can do the same while they are playing very fast (and i mean very fast).
i will try to record some of abadi playing and post them to give examples of what i mean.
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
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Mood: big band envy
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I see elrabee. Yeah, it's cool that you are pointing out the importance of good technique. That is where time spent in practice really comes
through.
But some playing styles just don't include really fast playing. That's why I love Batzanos and Targan so much. They could play/compose
with feeling, and their playing techniques were just phenomenal.
Looking forward to the new Abadi audio clip.
Take care,
mav
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wfspark
Oud Junkie
Posts: 166
Registered: 3-7-2004
Location: San Antonio Texas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud entranced!
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Vilocity
| Quote: | Originally posted by mavrothis
Hi elrabee,
I definitely agree that accuracy is important, but I don't think speed really means that much when it comes to expressing emotion. I think
it's just one way of doing that.
I think we should try and be able to play anything, but not necessarily play like one player or another all the time. Accurate speed when it should
be fast, and always play emotionally, regardless of speed.
What do you (and everyone else) think?
mav |
I agree with you Mav. Their is a time and a place for spead, but accuracy needs to be of a greater
concern. I also agree that you should express yourself when playing. This is the same regardless of what instrument you're playing.
William F. Sparks
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bluesyOud
Oud Maniac
Posts: 80
Registered: 3-3-2004
Location: Hellas
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oudy
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A good player never plays on public what he can't manage with accuracy.Accuracy
on the rythm ,on risha technique and anything else is very important .
But I believe playing slowly with accuracy,and developing a personality on
the s;ow playing is as hard as playing
fast.I can't bring too many examples on
oud players because I Know very few of them(I 'm new to eastern music).
But B.Bking for example can't even imagine the technique and speed of Yngvie malmsteen.
I'belong to the kind of people who prefer
B.b.king.I like malmsteen as well but
BB is what I love...
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Jasper
Oud Admirer
Posts: 2
Registered: 3-30-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Soul and speed
Hey guys, I agree speed is a big factor associated with skill. In my mind I think although young Joseph Tawadros(saw him on vids page) is a perfect
example. I believe he combines soul with speed, and seems to be very much in control.
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ghassan bashir
Oud Addict
Posts: 42
Registered: 4-9-2004
Location: lebanon
Member Is Offline
Mood: 0ud player/sing
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speed
hi fellows
i am not against fast notes if there was a need , and there is no rule ,the player's feeling is the control,and must be spontaneousno acting and showing off when playing,it is is not ,the faster the better,but the
opposite,especialy with this romantic instrument,,still ,am not against fast if and when needed,,
i also like to assure you guys that slow notes are harder to perform than fast ones because concentration....
finally ,players...just be your self when playing and try to practice (no one is wachin me ,i am alone ,i play 4 my self and myself only )
best regards
ghassan bashir
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Zulkarnain
Oud Junkie
Posts: 667
Registered: 1-14-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Hi Ghassan
Can you tell me about this Oud and the maker? Thanks
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
Member Is Offline
Mood: in LOVE
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well, i think i still cant describe my opinion in the right words.
i hope this example can make it clear.
check this file of Farido playing oud from his movie "Shaher el asaal", it was discussed before in Farid's forum, even if u listen to
it with 80% and 60% of its original speed u can hear how accurate Farid's playing was. this is what i m trying to explain (i still have couple of
clips of abadi that could make my poit more clear).
i m not talking here about the feeling or showing off, it is about the technique
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
Member Is Offline
Mood: in LOVE
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also the hikayit gharami Overture
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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Hi elrabee.
Those are really great examples of Farid's amazing right hand technique. I really love this stuff, but I think my brain works more
'linearly.' That's why I love to listen to Batzanos and Targan, and the players who have taken from their techniques. There is a lot
of right hand accuracy, but also really great, crazy runs with the left hand.
Are there similar examples by Farid, where the left hand is all over the fingerboard? His style seems more like he was focusing on dancing around the
main notes with difficult right hand techniques, like constant tremolo, while someone like Batzanos danced around the notes mostly with complicated
left hand runs.
I love both!
mav
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chuckerbutty
Oud Maniac
Posts: 98
Registered: 4-5-2004
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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That Hikayet sample is pretty amazing stuff - I like the way Farid has two virtually independent lines going, and that blazing tremolo is
mind-blowing. I can see what you're getting at, elrabee. Very few people are blessed with the levels of musicianship and athleticism to pull this
sort of thing off.
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elrabee3
Oud Junkie
Posts: 264
Registered: 12-19-2002
Location: Dubai, UAE
Member Is Offline
Mood: in LOVE
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i m glad that i made my point clear. i wish i still have the files of those two clips in slow motion (mybe mike or TP21 have these files, which posted
in Farid's forum by Sidi), then u can listen how amazing Farid's technique is (was) even if u listen to them in slow speed, and u will know
how it is amaing in its normal speed
Jaber
elrabee3@gmail.com
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Mood: No Mood
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Elrabee3,
Here is the Shaher el asaal clip slowed around 60%.
Farido clip
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
Posts: 789
Registered: 3-17-2003
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving the Oud
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I have them at home, I believe, though I'm at school right now. I was just listening to his Ansak Waftikrak at 50% last night, and it's
purely amazing. I'll check to see if I have it posted anywhere online and see if i can get back to you all.
TP21
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Sidi
Oud Maniac
Posts: 94
Registered: 2-6-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: Very Sad...
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I'm here!
Hi,
Work is keeping me from being with you more often, but I hope to find more time for that soon. Meanwhile here's my old post in the Farid
formus, on "Etab El Habib". Before I go, I really want to thank Elrabee3 for his very kind words towards me. I also want to thank Mike,
for providing this wonderful space for us. I hope to be with you all
soon.
God Bless,
Sidi
Farid's brilliance was doubtlessly witnessed in every aspect of his work. Yet his magical oud talents, stand as perhaps the most striking
example. Few among his listeners manage to uncover the complex details of his performances. A score of intricately placed ornaments, coupled with
majestic plucking techniques, gather to produce that divine music we've all come to know from him. Today we'll explore a short extract from
the current Song Of The Week, Seherti Toul Ellil which is better known as Etab El Habib. You'll see from the analysis files below, the sheer
amount of detail a small passage from Farid's oud can reveal.
First let's listen to the extract as it was played by Farid, at normal tempo from the Original File. You'll notice how beautiful the piece is despite it's short duration.
Now let's listen to another version that plays at 80% the original tempo. This is still beyond the abilities of many -if not most- of todays talented players,
specially when we consider the second half.
Farid starts with a remarkably stable "ring" or tremlo with which the melody plays, while adding a couple of inter notes or
intiqalat. The first one is incredibly fast, and can hardly be noticed by an untrained ear. It still is perfectly complete as you'll
hear in a moment.
The second part includes a very complex set of closing notes, let's hear them in this "Progressive" version of the extract, where we gradually drop the tempo to 50% at that point. What
impresses me most, is the clarity with which Farid played those notes, at such a high speed. Even after listening to the 1/2 speed version, I still
suspect there's further detail embedded within them.
Finally let's listen closely to those inter-notes in this version at 50% Tempo. Look for the first one at 0:04 and the second at 0:09. You can hear how fast and clear they sound
even at this tempo!
I believe this helps us appreciate the work this man has done over his 40+ year career. There are thousands of lessons to be learned even from the
shortest extracts.
Enjoy,
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