YelloDog
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Sandi or Sukar
You guy's have been so helpful.What do you think would be best at beginner level approx. $400.00 US. A Sandi or a Sukar?
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jaron
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Sandi makes Turkish ouds and Sukar ouds are Arabic.
You might start with the question of which tradition is calling to you at the moment.
Sandi is one of the few oud makers that goes to music trade shows, so their ouds sometimes end up in retail shops where they can be tried. If you
look around you might be able to find one to test. That's a huge benefit.
I have a student-level Sandi, but mine was improved by Oud maker Scott McKee. It definitely isn't a professional oud, but it is pleasant to play.
The main problem is that it's hard to tune because of the plastic nut and not-great pegs. Once it is tuned, it stays in tune, at least.
The Sukars can only be bought sight-unseen. I have two now, an older one that has some problems and a new top of the line one. Sukar ouds are just
magical. They have a peculiar punchy bass burst within the attack of each note. They also have a great sustain and that feels good to the fingers.
For $400 you can get a pretty good Sukar, I think. The same caution about tuning difficulty would probably apply.
Take the time to really tune your entry-level oud even if the oud seems to be resisting the process! It makes a huge difference to beginning players.
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Christian1095
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I like my Sukar Ouds... I have a high end one I bought from SamirCanada on this board and I just bought a $400 from Palmyrami. In all honesty, right
off the bat (I just got it today) other than ornamentation, "I" can't tell much of a difference... Both are very 'punchy' both have good action...
Both are well made... Though the cheaper feels a little thicker... both have good sound... but I have Aquilla strings on the expensive one and
Pyramids on the one that just came...
The one I bought from Samir feels warmer... but the new one might just need to warm up...
One thing I think is cool about the new $400 job is that the pretty border on the side of the neck lines up with where my figers should be... Not a
big deal to someone who's been playing a while, but after a few hours of playing it today... the visual reference is really nice and I feel more
comfortable.
In the whole Turkish vs. Arabic oud question... I guess it comes down to what sort of music you want to play... If you have a teacher local, then I
might speak with them. If you're like me and learning through trial and error and the internet... there seems to be more out there for Arabic ouds
than for Turkish ones...
One note of caution though, Palmyrami has had some issues in the past. I ordered from them yesterday and got good service. Also, I told them that I
post on this board and would certainly relay my experaince (not as a threat, but as an opportunity for them to repair some of the damage) and 'I' had
a positive experiance.
One thing I would suggest is that if you find on Oud that you like, post it hear and get opinions...
Good luck and happy hunting!
Chris Walters
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Alan-TX
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Hello Chris,
Is this the Sukar you bought?
http://www.palmyrami.com/index.php?productID=654
I bought that one from an ebay posting they had and like it very much for my beginners oud. They handled the transaction well in my case also.
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pauldata
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I got a nice Sandi student model last year. Don't think that they offer anything in the $400 range though. IIRC mine was listed on their website for
about $600, plus case and shipping. I've had no issues with tuning the Sandi; I did use peg dope on it though. I also have a cheaper Egyptian oud
that had tuning issues until I sanded the pegs to fit better, and then used peg dope. It now stays in tune quite well...
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Christian1095
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Alan, that's the one...
I really like it so far... I have Pyramid strings on it right now and they sound very bright... but I think I'm going to switch to Aquilla - which I
have on my other Sukar. I think the Aquilla strings sound warmer. I adjusted the neck (via the wingnut - thanks CharlieOud) to raise the action
slightly. And I put an internal piezio mic (K&K twinspot internal) in her.
Chris Walters
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Alan-TX
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Good to know this model has the wingnut. I was wondering as it appears to be Sukars entry level model. But that is just a guess. Let us know how the
pickup works out.
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jaron
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I think you CAN buy a new Sandi student oud in the USA for about $400- I'm not certain, but I think this is an example:
http://www.rhythmfusion.com/product/H07A/H07A__Oud_Turkish_Student....
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Christian1095
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The difference between my $800 Sukar and my $400 sukar appears to be mostly in the level of detail and the lack of ebony pegs. Also, the soundboard
and staves appear to be a little thicker... but that could be due to the fact that they instruments were made at different times.... The tops of both
have a really nice grain....
The pickups appear to be working really well.... At least as good as the twin spot external... the thing that sucked about the installation was that
I couldn't see inside, so the location is an approximation of where I think they should be. But in terms of sound, I think they sound better inside
than out... but at some point, "any" pickup on an oud just does not sound as well as it does played without amplification... but for what they are
they, I really like them.
At some point I'll post a sound clip...
Chris Walters
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pauldata
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I see no indication that those instruments are made by Sandi. What makes you think they are??
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Benjamin
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The point is to know which style of music you prefer to play on your oud. As a Sukar oud player, I can tell you anyway that Sukar oud have a really
great and warm arabic sound, and especially a beautiful bass play. If you feel more like playing turkish style music and a higher play and faster
play, maybe you should try a turkish oud. Another point, important: Sukar oud are a bit longer than most ouds, that means for myself that only pyramid
lute strings and aquilla sounds good and are playable. It's my own opinion, when I tried to put other strings it just sucked and wasn't playable at
all. Actually I'm using pyramid lute strings, which are quite expensive, but the result is really good and the sound of the oud is really warm, with a
strong bass a clear higher strings.
The only problem on cheapest Sukar oud (like the one I have) is that the woods are not really good, especially on pegs. That's why I change the
original pegs to ebony pegs, which cost me a lot, but it really worth it as now my tuning is very stable.
Hope it helped
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jaron
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re the ouds at the rhythm fusion store in santa cruz, last time i stopped in there, which was a few years ago, i saw that they had inexpensive ouds
from Sandi, but I would suggest that you call the store and talk to Dror, the owner- he is honest and will tell you what he has- he travels and buys
instead of relying only on the trade shows, so he's a little different from the many sellers in the USA who rely on places like mid-east for
inexpensive ouds
re strings on the sukar, this is an interesting question- i'm using strings meant for turkish oud, from hank levin/musicaravan, because they just
happen to really sing at the combination of the longer length and lower tuning of the sukar -
i have noticed that different ouds seem to be at their best at different levels of volume, or toughness of playing- the sukar is amazing when it is
played rather delicately compared to some other ouds
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oiduts9989
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Benjamin,
Coud you please tell me what are lute strings that you use. I am lute player, new to oud, just got new Sukar, and strings are buzzing (La Bella
OU80A). Please be specific regarding brands and gagues.I tune it DGAdgc. Thanks,
Stephen
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Benjamin
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Dear oiduts,
I'm not surprised that Labella buzzes on your Sukar, most strings I tried had a bad result on this oud. I use Pyramid lute strings (don't mess:
Pyramid LUTE strings and NOT Pyramid OUD strings which are to my opinion bad) which are quite expensive but it worth as it is the more playable
strings for me on Sukar and they render its great sounds. I tune my oud CFAdgc, so you could use roughtly the same as I use. I buy them from a shop in
Paris they ship it to me here, they have the specification of my oud in their computer, so I don't know the gauge but if you wish you can ask them
according to my oud and then just ask to get the two bass strings differently. I found here the envelopes of the strings, with numbers, maybe it can
help you: for c (higher strings) it is 0,600; then 0,66 (g); then 0,86 (d); then 1,025 (A); then 1,116 (F), then 1,239 (bass C). Hope it can be
useful.
As you mentionned Jaron I agree Sukar ouds are more suitable to taqasims or gentle and slow playing, it can become harder to play quickly on the
higher part of the board (I still do it but it's a bit hard), maybe because the oud is longer and because the distance between the strings and the
board is slightly higher.
Benjamin
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