| Pages:
1
..
6
7
8
9 |
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
Moldavian dialect of Romanian (if you mean Tudor Ungureanu!) which for native Romanian speakers is still 99% intellegible.
Pronounciation is different and some words differ slightly. One distinct feature is that in Moldavian the "v" often turns into a "j" (pronounced as
the French word gendarme)
"wine" - (romanian) vin; (moldavian) jin
"to fit" - (ro) a se potrivi; (mol) a se potriji
Somehow the cobza scene is still very alive both in Moldavia (province) as in the country Moldavia!
|
|
|
billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
|
|
| Quote: | Originally posted by Jack_Campin
What language is that guy singing in? |
romanian?
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNQf30PayMM&fmt=18
Ok so this is not exactly cobza music, but I'm pretty sure that there's a cobza in there every now and then, and it even has a mini solo at 4:07! 
|
|
|
Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: g'oud
|
|
I'm a newcomer to this thread but find this instrument fascinating - especially since I normally live very near - in Czech...
Can someone recommend any clips or mp3 which show this instrument in a solo situation? In all the clips I heard so far it was drowned out by the
violin....
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
Sure thing, here are some:
Trei Parale:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hzvs0wyrCko&feature=channel_page...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkUOvsy2L6Y&feature=channel_page...
Ion Zlotea (he starts after the violin intro):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1Myp_yDvMg&fmt=18
Tudor Gheorghe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBsk8OM3bUQ&feature=related&...
Constantin Gaciu (he does solo cobza from 1:20)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x_zyUibONDM&fmt=18
Ion Strambeanu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6v8GHuSQG4&feature=related&...
and search youtube for Zlotea, Tudor Unugreanu, Violeta Zaplitnii and Tudor Gheorghe for some authentic Romanian cobza playing (although Zaplitnii
plays jazz on it too  )
Finally, not cobza but still cool to post I think, Romanian music played on... a leaf. Seriously, a leaf. (Off a tree, I guess).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fv2E3nF_MIA&feature=channel
|
|
|
Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: g'oud
|
|
really fascinating!
it also looks very similar to a turkish classic kemence turned sideways.
I have a friend, Sandor Szabo from budapest who is now working on a project to revive (or re-invent) the hungarian makam... I wonder if he could get
inspiration from this instrument?
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
The Hungarian makam? wow, I didn't even know that existed! Keep me up to date on this one, sounds interesting... and I guess you could use a cobza for
it, although maybe the cobza would need a slightly longer neck?
I know Romanian music has something similar to a makam but it's nowadays only used in (orthodox) church music. A makam is called "glas" (literally:
voice, or sound), but I've no idea wether this was exclusively used in church music or in secular music as well.. could be an interesting study!
check out this Romanian orthodox chant: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bt76H642Rk&feature=channel_page
and this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWAi4qP5HQ&feature=channel which is done in Glas 5 (makam 5) but I have no idea wha the other 4 are and how
many there are above 5...! I guess it's byzantine theory?
Oh, and keep us up to date with that Hungarian makam project!
|
|
|
gregorypause
Oud Addict
Posts: 44
Registered: 10-20-2007
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Never heard of a Hungarian makam. Then again I am not familiar with music theory (historical) to this extent.
However, I found an interesting project of Sandor Szabo. It is in Hungarian but the pictures speak for themselves. He had this instrument built. It is
a mix between a fretless guitar and oud:
http://gitarhangtechnika.hu/index.php?menu=2-2&oldal=cikkek/ht_...
|
|
|
Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: g'oud
|
|
Very nice to hear this Byzantine music - - - I can definitely hear how it has influenced Turkish music!
|
|
|
Koya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 132
Registered: 6-24-2005
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
|
|
Before the concert
Hi,
Bolya's cobza befor the concert.
|
|
|
adamgood
Oud Junkie
Posts: 499
Registered: 6-27-2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: 2.7 koma flat
|
|
WOW! I am in shock for so many reasons, first of all that is really beautiful to my ears and probably everyone here.
2nd of all...this glas, it sounds and moves so much like Huseyni! Whoah. It's almost creepy.
3rd, I had no idea about Byzantine chant from Romania?!?! I'm fairly ignorant about religious music in general but I have heard some Greek Byzantine
singing and been to a couple of masses in NYC that had some nice singers.
Can anyone point us to a wikipedia article or some page online that gives some info/history for the Romanian church music?
My ear has a difficult time picking up the language they are singing in...is it actually Romanian? The titles for sure look like Romanian words but
how about the text?
Also I'm curious about this word "glas"... I'm almost 100% certain glas mean voice in Bulgarian and Macedonian and I'm sure many other Slavic
languages, though what about Russian? Is that a common word in Romanian language for "voice"? Does Russian orthodox music also have "glas"es ?
Here is a piece in "glas 1"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-7bQuvn1Ek
Sounds or reminds me kind of like Buselik
|
|
|
Jack_Campin
Oud Junkie
Posts: 333
Registered: 5-6-2007
Location: Scotland
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
There is a pretty comprehensive book about Byzantine music by Egon Wellesz. Stuff in the New Grove as well but I forget exactly what.
Brief summary here (I assume "glas" = "tonos"):
http://www.antiochian.org/sacredmusic/pdf/Byzantine%20Tones%20Guide...
|
|
|
bobtom115
Oud Admirer
Posts: 1
Registered: 6-22-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
wonderful! thanks for the info.. 
pret personnel
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
Adam - sorry for this late reply!!
"glas" is a very archaic word for voice, no doubt from Church Slavonic, but it's not used (anymore) in spoken language. You'll find it in the Bible
and some classic poems. It is indeed the same word that is used now in Bulgarian and Russian for voice. The common word for voice in Romanian is
"voce", pronounced as in Italian.
The language they sing in is indeed Romanian, albeit the form found in liturgy, so much more slavic oriented.
Glas in this case is indeed the Romanian counterpart of "tonos" (Which would literally translate to "ton" in Romanian). Another variant would be
"ecou", which actually means echo - this is the Greek influence. Romanian liturgy has always been a weird mix of Greek and Slavonic Orthodoxy.
I searched for online sources on Romanian Byzantine music as well, but haven't found much. I do know it's quite common - my grandfather always used to
listen to this kind of chants, that's where I know it from.
I'm going to Romania tomorrow, I will see if there's any info on this subject to be found over there!
[EDIT] The Greek influence can be further explained by the fact that Bucharest and Iasi (Jassy) were, at one point during Ottoman rule, the Balkan
centers of Greek learning and culture!
|
|
|
spyros mesogeia
Oud Junkie
Posts: 896
Registered: 9-10-2003
Location: WASHINGTON DC
Member Is Offline
Mood: play my ouds
|
|
Of of of,modurile astea.
Arsene intri pe facebook?
Ne am pierdut frate.....ce mai faci?
Cum merge cu muzica?
Ceva cobze noi?
Salutari din Grecia
Spyros
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
yep, te am adaugat pe FB, eu sunt Andrei Liviu Popescu... eh, acuma sunt full-time cu scoala, ultimul an de drept fiscal :S
Mi-am luat si eu un ud nou din Istanbul acolo prin Tunel.. e destul de dragut, nimic special dar pentru cat a costat foarte bine construit si arata
foarte elegant.
Tu, ceva nou? Mai dai concerte prin Romania in vara asta? Si cum sa cumpar si eu CD-ul tau? Tot ascult melodiile pe MySpace dar as vrea si eu un
CD!!
[EDIT] auzi, a propo, tu nu stii mai multe despre modurile astea? Muzica bizantina... in Romania, in Balcan... cum sta cu glasurile, daca se extinde
mai mult decat in muzica religioasa? Exista de exemplu un fel de muzica "populara" in timpul Bizantiei?
|
|
|
spyros mesogeia
Oud Junkie
Posts: 896
Registered: 9-10-2003
Location: WASHINGTON DC
Member Is Offline
Mood: play my ouds
|
|
sigur ca da,exista muzica populara in moduri,o sa le discutam in separat daca vrei.
Eu sunt in Grecia acum,mai am 4 luni de armata.Dupa aia plec in Statele Unite.
Ma bucur de noul tau instrument,sa-l stapanesti sanatos frate.
Trage Tare cu scoala....da-il drum
Tinem legatura Andrei.
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
Slightly off topic:
I recently did some (minor) research on Aromanian (Vlach) music from Greece (and certain parts of Macedonia). Vlachs in the broadest sense are the
Latinized peoples of the Balkans, historically including modern-day Romanians. (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vlachs)
The term however is now mostly being used to refer to the Aromanian people living in Northern Greece mostly, who call themselves Armãnji (derving
from Latin "Romanus") but interestingly enough, in Romanian the name for the people is "Makedoni". See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanians
They live primarily in the Pindus Mountains area and in towns such as Ioannina, Metsovo, Veria, Katerini, and Thessaloniki.
A large part of Aromanians has also been settling in Wallachia since the middle ages. Today, 25% of the Dobrujan (Black Sea coast) population is
Aromanian.
Anyway, about their music. I have a CD issued by the Association of Vlachs in Veria (Gr) - see samples here http://www.vlahoi.gr/songs.htm. On the back of the CD it says that a "lute" (laoúto) is used, but it doesn't specify the type. The sound and way
of playing does somewhat remind me of a cobza though.
Equally interesting is this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65BKcZllJKg where one can clearly hear an oud!
I have been scouring the web to find some names of musicians but unfortunately, no results... The only two names I've got are the lute players on the
Veria cd, Apostolis Pindzileos and Hristos Dagalas, but googling their names was all in vain. I'm curious as to who that oud player might be, and if
thee are more in the aromanian tradition!
According to a fellow passenger on my flight back from Romania last week, who happened to be a Vlach from Epirus, the "outi" is a fairly common
instrument (where as the bouzouki is not at all) in Aromanian music and dance, but youtube only gave me this clip as a confirmation...
Anybody here who might know more about this? It's not entirely cobza related but I figured the romanian connection justified posting this here!
|
|
|
adamgood
Oud Junkie
Posts: 499
Registered: 6-27-2005
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: 2.7 koma flat
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by arsene  |
Anyway, about their music. I have a CD issued by the Association of Vlachs in Veria (Gr) - see samples here http://www.vlahoi.gr/songs.htm. On the back of the CD it says that a "lute" (laoúto) is used, but it doesn't specify the type. The sound and way
of playing does somewhat remind me of a cobza though.
Equally interesting is this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65BKcZllJKg where one can clearly hear an oud!
According to a fellow passenger on my flight back from Romania last week, who happened to be a Vlach from Epirus, the "outi" is a fairly common
instrument (where as the bouzouki is not at all) in Aromanian music and dance, but youtube only gave me this clip as a confirmation...
|
Very interesting, though I wonder if your fellow passenger on your flight was really thinking of laouto as opposed to outi? In Epirus parts of Greece
the laouto is very very common. And in the page you posted that has the short sound clips, I'm hearing laouto and very typical sounds for music from
Epirus.
But in the youtube page you posted yes by all means that's outi. So that's really interesting. I don't mean to stir up anything here by saying this
but to me the performance and sound of that track has so much in common with so-called "chalgija" music from Macedonia (FYROM)...ud, kanun,
percussion, group of people singing.
adam
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by adamgood | I don't mean to stir up anything here by saying this but to me the performance and sound of that track has so much in common with so-called
"chalgija" music from Macedonia (FYROM)...ud, kanun, percussion, group of people singing.
adam |
I was actually thinking along the same lines... instrumental track sounds very chalgija indeed! Although I'd say the singing is less chalgija and very
typical of Vlach singing in general... but my knowledge of chalgija is very limited though.
Cheers,
Andrei
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by arsene |
I have been scouring the web to find some names of musicians but unfortunately, no results... The only two names I've got are the lute players on the
Veria cd, Apostolis Pindzileos and Hristos Dagalas, but googling their names was all in vain. I'm curious as to who that oud player might be, and if
thee are more in the aromanian tradition!
|
So I was looking to find Vlach lauto and oud players online, and what I found was a Romanian vlach bouzouki player... Mircea Cazan. Plays with Stelu
Enache (famous vlach singer in Romania) and Ionut Galani (another singer). Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfO8tnJgCCY&feature=channel kind of commercial stuff...
Here's Cazan going solo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHO_u5uZemo&feature=channel_page
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
Great cobza piece composed by one of the greatest and most famous cobza players in Romanian history, Vasile Barbu (aka Barbu Lautaru). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sshPQK1XKx0
I have attached some nice cobza pictures! (all by Theodor Aman, a Romanian painter)
[file]10574[/file] [file]10576[/file] [file]10578[/file]
|
|
|
arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
Member Is Offline
|
|
Found recordings of one of the greatest cobza players in Romania, Grigore Kiazim!
http://www.arseneweb.com/balkanspy/cobza/balada.mp3 - Balada
http://www.arseneweb.com/balkanspy/cobza/ziua.mp3 - Dinspre Ziua
http://www.arseneweb.com/balkanspy/cobza/lelita.mp3 - Lelita Floare
He's definitely one of my fav players, enjoy!
|
|
|
Koya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 132
Registered: 6-24-2005
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
|
|
Online Cobza course
Hi Folks,
Free online cobza (koboz) course will start next week with Géza FÁBRI.
http://www.koboziskola.hu/index.htm#feliratkozas
It will be Hungarian, but maybe useful.
If I can help in something please send U2U.
Bye: Koya
|
|
|
Koya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 132
Registered: 6-24-2005
Location: Hungary
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
|
|
FÁBRI Géza
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
..
6
7
8
9 |
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
