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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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You will never be able to cut a rosette with that amount of fine detail using mahogany or cedar - the latter being particularly soft. Your material
should be bone veneer or some similar hard, grain free stuff - even hard plastic sheet such as 'Formica' - all cut with a fine bladed jeweller's fret
saw.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 9-10-2014
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Quote: Originally posted by jdowning  | | You will never be able to cut a rosette with that amount of fine detail using mahogany or cedar - the latter being particularly soft. Your material
should be bone veneer or some similar hard, grain free stuff - even hard plastic sheet such as 'Formica' - all cut with a fine bladed jeweller's fret
saw. |
thanks Jdowning
for your valuable advice.
I would like to use wood for the rosette and I am available to modify the idea of drawning, but I don't want use ant. About the bone does not know if
it's easy to find a piece of bone of sufficient size to achieve rosette .. usually you go to the butcher? I can see if it is feasible! I prefer dark
color..
however I'm starting to think of a simpler design for use wood ..
I saw that many luthiers use mahogany, or rosewood o zircote ...
it will mean that I will do some testing! My luck is that I do it for pure passion!
thanks
P.S:
Today I bought the magazine of villanella Neapolitan, with magazine attached (CD + magazine) and I'll be happy to send it as soon gift! then in pvt
you send me your address!
unfortunately it is all in Italian but I know the magazine and I believe you'll find it very beautiful. It will then be a privilege to help you
translate the parts you want.
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Hibari-San
Oud Maniac
Posts: 78
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Saluto ! 
what jdowning meant was bone veneer which is already put together to a flat, thin plate.
As a veneer you can find bone in various measurements.
In germany I found it in a instrument maker supplier store, who also sells mother of pearl veneer and stuff like that.
Good luck for your rosette cutting !!
Best regards
Hibari
--------------------------------------------------------
"If you spend to much time thinking about a thing, you'll never get it done. Make at least one definite
move daily toward your goal."
- Bruce Lee -
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
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Faggiuols - thank you for your kind offer to send the villanella Neapolitan magazine/CD. I will look forward to that.
In return I could make up and send you some 2 to 3 mm thick veneer plates in African Ebony that I have in stock for making the rosettes - the wood is
completely black, hard, fine grained and well seasoned (if plain black is the colour that you want?) - so it should also hold fine design detail. What
are your sound hole diameters and I will check what I have in stock to suit?
If you prefer a lighter coloured wood I also have some old Castello boxwood in stock - it is pale yellow in colour - again hard and fine grained so
will also hold fine design detail. I use it for pegs, fingerboards and inlay work.
I will email you later with details as I have a family emergency to deal with at present.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: Originally posted by Hibari-San | Saluto !
what jdowning meant was bone veneer which is already put together to a flat, thin plate.
As a veneer you can find bone in various measurements.
In germany I found it in a instrument maker supplier store, who also sells mother of pearl veneer and stuff like that.
Good luck for your rosette cutting !! |
thanks Hibari-San ..
actually I did not understand what bone is used for rosette!
thanks for your clarification !!
Now I'll do some research on the internet!
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 9-10-2014
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| Quote: Originally posted by jdowning | Faggiuols - thank you for your kind offer to send the villanella Neapolitan magazine/CD. I will look forward to that.
In return I could make up and send you some 2 to 3 mm thick veneer plates in African Ebony that I have in stock for making the rosettes - the wood is
completely black, hard, fine grained and well seasoned (if plain black is the colour that you want?) - so it should also hold fine design detail. What
are your sound hole diameters and I will check what I have in stock to suit?
If you prefer a lighter coloured wood I also have some old Castello boxwood in stock - it is pale yellow in colour - again hard and fine grained so
will also hold fine design detail. I use it for pegs, fingerboards and inlay work.
I will email you later with details as I have a family emergency to deal with at present. |
thank's mr. Jdowning
for your very welcome offer ..
But I actually prefer a less dark ebony color, but lighter than the yellow boxwood .. I do not really like the yellow.
ebony, with the dark background of rosewood , will not stand out sufficiently.
the color should be like mahogany, wood color, but in between the clear fir and black ebony.
do you think that mahogany is not good to make rosette? I could possibly cut a rosette in mohogany with greater thickness and then decrease the
thickness?
Instead, if you can help me, I would like very some rosette design or some indication of where I can find drawings on internet .. I do not have many,
especially for small holes!
quiet for your family emergency, the family first! I, as you know, I did not hurry!
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
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Thank you faggiuols.
Of course, you may use any wood species that you want for a rosette - the rosette design or its material has little if any significant acoustical
effect. My only point is that if you want to cut a very complex design of rosette with fine detail you will need to use a hard, fine grained material
- be it bone veneer or wood. Mahogany will be OK but it is relatively soft with some grain so will not accept such fine detail without being weak and
so potentially prone to breakage. So a simpler more robust design choice will be necessary.
Sorry, I do not have a source of oud rosette designs large or small.
I will be in touch by email hopefully within a few days.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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yuppies!
found it !!!!!
I finally managed to find a rosette file that looks beautiful to me!
I am attaching!
Now I have to find drawings of rosette for small holes that go great together!
now I'm going to do the tests .. if I can not do that, I'll try to take a simpler design!
goodbye at all
[file]37502[/file]
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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Goodmorning everyone
Yesterday I started roughing braces (3 mm in the center - 4 mm near the bowl).
I am attaching a photo.
the problem is that the points where the braces will paste on the bowl, the contact surface is not perfect, but it touches only partially.
do you believe this will be a problem during the gluing of the soundboard, or the glue will fill all the spaces, making bonding good?
thank you all
[file]37510[/file]
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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The CD and Amadeus periodical 'Le Villanelle alla Napoletana' arrived today. Thank you for your kindness faggiuols.
The performance and artistic interpretation of the music is outstanding and the historical information in the magazine is covered in depth - even
including information about the colascione - one of the instruments used in the recording.
I must now make a start on learning the basics of reading Italian!
A Happy New Year to all.
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Alfaraby
Oud Junkie
Posts: 796
Registered: 9-18-2009
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Please contact me through e-mail. I might be of some help.
Good luck
Yours indeed
Alfaraby
alfarabymusic@gmail.com
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
Registered: 9-10-2014
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| Quote: Originally posted by jdowning | The CD and Amadeus periodical 'Le Villanelle alla Napoletana' arrived today. Thank you for your kindness faggiuols.
The performance and artistic interpretation of the music is outstanding and the historical information in the magazine is covered in depth - even
including information about the colascione - one of the instruments used in the recording.
I must now make a start on learning the basics of reading Italian!
A Happy New Year to all. |
Dear mr Jdowning
I am happy that it has arrived to you.
I know that the magazine is beautiful and I hope you likes it.
I want to Thank you for any help that you reserve at all in this forum with your wisdom.
Happy new Year.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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Dear mr Alfaraby
Thank you very much for your kindness.
I send you an email immediately.
thanks a lot.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Hello everyone
a little update on my slow work.
I am realizing the covering of neck with maple wood. Small splints because the single piece I can not bend it (unique piece was in my original
plan).
I'm deciding whether to insert the inlay of rosewood between a cue and the other or leave it white.
If someone wants to say their opinion is always well accepted.
the next update.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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I think it would be nice with 1 rosewood splint down the middle. or alternating 2 white maples, 1 rosewood, etc...
of you can simply add a small 1 mm rosewood or black stripe in between.
I am sure you know this but you can use a plane inverted to make the glue angle match exactly on the wooden splints. just like when you make the ribs.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Hello Samir
nice idea to put a small 1 mm rosewood strip betwen le strisce di acero!
I really like!
Now I am going to do some test!
I will keep you up to date.
bye
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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Dear forum participants
someone, in pvt, told me that being a neck white in contrast with the dark bowl is not a good idea .. all my oud project collapsed, in my mind!
it being understood that even my idea remains the same, I would like to know, if possible, some other opinion.
I thank you all in advance.
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abc123xyz
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: Originally posted by faggiuols | | someone, in pvt, told me that being a neck white in contrast with the dark bowl is not a good idea .. all my oud project collapsed, in my mind!
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Well if you're building this oud for yourself, then it's entirely a matter of personal aesthetics, isn't it?
You have enough of the oud finished at this point that you can confidently tell whether you're going to like the light neck on the dark body or not,
and should proceed accordingly.
If you're hoping to sell it however, then you might want to get a few opinions besides your own, but only then, just to see what's most commonly
wanted.
My first and only oud was a cheap no-name model with a body of alternating dark and light woods and a light-colored neck cut from a single piece of
wood with no veneer or anything, and I like how that neck looks. I even prefer it to many of the more fancy necks I've seen, though I should
admit that in general I prefer simple and minimally adorned instruments.
In matters of engineering and how structure affects sound and playability, one should definitely defer to those with more experience, but, in regard
to aesthetics, one should always follow their own heart ¦·)
David
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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thanks David
a nice answer .., I would greatly appreciate your words.
I do not have to sell this oud, it will be "my" oud!
actually, after this remark on the color of the neck, my idea of the colors of the oud was broken, and I no longer very safe.
I enclose below the images of how it should be, the veneer is also given by poor technical capacity, in fact I preferred all white, but I can not get
over the good bonding between the pieces. for this reason I prefer to put the thread of rosewood.
Certainly I follow my heart as soon as this has stabilized again.
I hope to soon overcome this uncertainty
Thanks so much, David.
[file]38006[/file] [file]38002[/file] [file]38004[/file]
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
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Nicely done faggiuols! Neat workmanship.
The built up veneer blank is quite thick (that you will be trimming down to finished size once glued in place) so your decision to use black strips in
the joints is a wise one. The use of contrasting woods in this way was often employed by some of the finest luthiers in history where the joining of
wood segments (such as non symmetrical lute ribs) was a bit complicated. The contrasting woods (dark against white) disguise any slight discrepancies
in the joints so they will never be noticed.
As for appearances the choice is entirely yours. It looks just fine to me. I have made instruments with light coloured, dark veneered and black
stained or painted necks - all techniques found in historical instruments. A black neck is often preferred only because it is less likely to show
marks in use - that is all.
If you are planning to add a traditional 'bracelet' strip covering the neck joint this will be a natural break in the continuity between the ends of
the bowl ribs and the neck veneer and will also cover any slight discrepancies that may be visible in the neck joint itself.
Varnishing (a penetrating finish gunstock such as Truoil) will protect against staining of the white wood in use and will bring out its natural grain
figure as an additional decorative feature.
Good progress.
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
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Thanks mr. Jdowming
for your words .. I feel much better!
I needed solace.
naturally I will put the bracelet between the neck and the bowl. I think it will be in continuity with ebony for the keyboard also made of ebony. also
off well with rosewood with maple.
The pegbox is maple interior and exterior rosewood and, if I can, I would put the wires maple on the outside .. this will update my thread later.
thanks for the appreciation for my work too!
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SamirCanada
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I like it!,
In fact I have seen some very expensive ouds with the same colour scheme.
@samiroud Instagram
samiroudmaker@gmail.com
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Microber
Oud Junkie
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Hi Faggiuols,
I also like it very much. Keep on your good work. And build your oud as you feel.
Robert
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faggiuols
Oud Junkie
Posts: 285
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Dear Samir and Robert
thanks for your kind words of appreciation.
unfortunately I am a neophyte in the world of the oud and I do not know, like you, the tradition of it. thanks for sharing with me many things about
this wonderful musical instrument!
however, the veneer is glued!
Last night I finished gluing, and in a few days I will check if everything went well. I am attaching the photo
I will update in a few days.
Goodbye and good weekend!
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
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Note that if using an oil/varnish formulation for a hand rubbed finish (easy to use) on the neck veneer, the thin varnish is absorbed into the wood
and does not sit on the surface (or wear out in use) like a plain clear varnish. The absorbed oil/varnish mixture will slightly darken the bare wood
as it 'brings out' the wood grain and result in an attractive hard, durable, water resistant semi matte (i.e. not glossy or shiny) finish.
One commercially available example of an oil/varnish mix is 'TruOil' - originally intended for finishing gun stocks - or alternatively a 'Danish Oil'
varnish can be used. A hand rubbed finish may also be applied to the bowl and does not require practiced skill to apply like a 'French' polished
finish.
If you cannot purchase 'TruOil' in Sardinia, Italy then you can very easily make your own oil/varnish finish at low cost as I have described here.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=12156
Unfortunately, I am not allowed to ship 'TruOil' by mail otherwise I could have sent you a bottle to try.
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