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mrkmni
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Fernand,
I guess they say : what a strange man with a strange (ethnic) instrument?
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mrkmni
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Based on this photo, http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10779#pid73...
What is the scale of the oud and can I tune it turkish and arabic?
I notice that it is not 58.5 nor 61.5 cm
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Aymara
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In the photo you showed the string length to the front of the nut is 60.5cm, so you need an arab string set and tuning!
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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mrkmni
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What is the problem with the G string?
I have the same problem now. I tuned GGAADDggccff so I should have more tension in strings...than when I tune FGGAADDggcc for example.
It is pretty strange, the G has a wiered sound.
any advice?
tks
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fernandraynaud
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mrkmni: I try to write in detail so you understand, sorry if it comes out long. Unless we are talking in different OCTAVES, my
calculations in the other thread are reasonably accurate. I hope I clearly communicated that the way you have it tuned you risk destroying the oud
very quickly. The problem with the "G" string is likely that it is severely damaged from 8-11 kg tension. That string should be tuned to B, C or at
most D, not G.
Your oud scale is 605 mm? I don't see on the photos where you anchored the other end of the measuring tape, but it probably is. You can use the Mari
strings (using the optional ff "course 0 mumtaz" strings for the 1st course) to tune it the way you have it now, your 6th course G string will come
from the envelope marked 5th course, it will be something like a 0.033", and you will set aside the fattest string marked 6th course. In other words
you add a thin course, and "shift" the other courses down in position. Course 0 goes where course 1 normally goes, course 1 goes to where course 2
normally goes, course 2 goes to the third notches, etc. This lightens the gauges and allows you to tune it a 4th higher.
OR you can set aside the ff course 0 and place the 0.025" course 1 strings normally in the top course, and tune it to cc, a normal Arabic tuning, with
the other strings "shifted up a course" compared to the high ff tuning, so your bottom string will come from the 6th course envelope, it will be a
0.043", which you would tune to C. In this case you will not use the course 0 "mumtaz" ff strings, it's a standard tuning, standard strings.
Because your Sukar M1 is not 615, but 605 mm, it gives you a bit less tension, and you can pretty safely tune the instrument Turkish using the same
string set, with the 0.025" course 1 strings in the top course tuned to dd. Everything will be positioned just as in the Arabic tuning, you will just
be tuning it a whole tone higher in the high 4 courses, the 5th course probably F#F# and the 6th course probably D. I say "probably" as I don't play
Turkish, and maybe they have other retunings for the bass strings.
Chris: with your shorter yet scale, there's no reason you can't tune yours Arabic OR Turkish with the same strings. Since you have
doubts, you should go through the calculations until you are satisfied.
Look at Arto's string tension calculator, and work with Nylon first until it makes perfect sense to you. Nylon has a mass around 1010-1050 kg/cubic
meter.
http://www.cs.helsinki.fi/u/wikla/mus/NewScalc/
Compare what you calculate with the actual data D'Addario's provides for Nylon strings.
Then plug some actual wound string data into it, like the D'Addario's data, and work backwards by trial and error to derive masses that "work". You
will find that in practice wound oud strings act as if they had a mass around 4500-6500 kg/cubic meter. Different thicknesses will have different
tightness of winding and thickness of wire, on a varying nylon core, so it makes sense that it's not always the same mass, as it is with a homogeneous
material. You can develop a sense for how to raise and drop the mass to get your calculated data to agree exactly with the actual data D'Addario
provides, but even if you don't adjust the wound string mass precisely, you can get quite close. You will then be able to plug any plain nylon or
silvered copper wound string in and derive a credible tension at any scale length and tuning.
The last piece of the puzzle is that ouds don't like the 6 kg tensions that are common on Spanish guitars, let alone the 12 kg tensions common on
Western guitars, and 4 to 4.5 kg is a reasonable ceiling. A common working tension is around 3-3.5 kg. Under 3 kg feels a bit loose, and 5 kg feels
too tight. There's a lot of people agreeing with that. Lutes are usually strung even a bit lighter.
My Sukar Model 1 is 615 mm. I have had it tuned Turkish on standard strings, but if it were 600 mm or 585 mm I would be more comfortable leaving it
tuned like that.
I had occasion to play a couple of the new Sukars with the 600 mm scale and factory strings. Apparently 600mm is Sukar's new standard. One of them
sounded better tuned Turkish, the other sounded better tuned Arabic. The brighter one could be left Turkish or perhaps should use the ff tuning using
the "mumtaz" strings.
I hope we can get on the same page here, so people are neither locked into packaged string sets, nor demolishing ouds.
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David.B
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mrkmni:
I'm talking about the G strings for Daniel Mari in the Arabic set, I'm talking about the material. But FLIPAX had the same problem :
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=9942
To be honest I haven't read it yet, but I've brought it to the fore...
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mrkmni
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I ordered today the mari strings, of course with mumtaz ( which means excellent)...
It is said that it takes 2 to 7 days for shipping to Canada Qc..
Thanks guys for yout helpful advices.
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fernandraynaud
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I'll be very curious how you like these with the high ff.
On your first course you'll put the Mari "course 0" Mumtaz 0.020" strings, and tune to ff. That will be about the same gauge you have on it now.
That's the strange thing, that Sukar ships such a light string for the top course, and then he ships as much as a 0.050" for the bottom, which means
that no tuning is going to work very well. That's probably how you got into trying to tune it high, because the top strings sounded flappy when you
tuned them to cc.
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