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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
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Okay... finished before 12pm...
here are the inlays on the bowl...
 
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
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hmmm...
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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GOOD GOING!
really nice job on the inlays clayton.
they look nice and tight.
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
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| Quote: | Originally posted by SamirCanada
GOOD GOING!
really nice job on the inlays clayton.
they look nice and tight. |
Thanks Samir... I am waiting for an update on your project too...
The inlays are really rewarding because they dont take too long to do and really add so much to the look of the Oud.
I am now a little over two weeks into the build...
I set the neck today and am cutting the rosette right now.
Braces tommorow and start working on the purfling tiles.
I think it will be ready for finish in a week and I may be playing an Oud in under four weeks! 
See you all later!
Clayton
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
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Mood: Calm
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Here is the result of last nights rosette session...
a bit more to go and will be doing the soundhole purfling
tonight as well...
I will post more later...
-C
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
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Here is the finished update on the rosette from last night...
I made the rosette from seven layers of an unknown veneer, glued up with each layer oriented in a different direction.
It is very strong, light, stable.
Here is the quick jig I made this morning to start the
bracing. It is just a couple of pieces of birch ply with
four allthreads on the corners with nuts and washers.
I had a bunch of walnut sticks already ripped and they seem to
work fine
Still going together well!
See you all later.
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
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Mood: Calm
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Here is the update.
I did some research on lute brace tuning... there is a huge amount of information on lutes... not so much on Ouds...They have done a lot of research
on tuning braces on reproduction lutes at the university. (finally a worthy use of tax dollars) )
based on this information I carved the braces with a 1/4 step tuning between opposite braces from the outside in. This is a total
experiment... as I will be happy if my Oud gives a resonant THUMP when played!!!! I just want to have a functioning Oud to start playing so I
figure why not use this first instrument to play around with stuff. Here are the braces...
The braces fit snug and tight to the ribs all the way around.
I really like the rosette, but, it is a little heavy on the visual lines... it is really a lute rosette design anyway... the next on will be lighter
and thinner lines...
I am making a new pegbox as well... I have a few new ideas and am not really happy with the first one... it does'nt take much time so I'm not really
upset to scrap the old one... plus I got a new set of pegs that I like better than the first ones.
I need to order some strings shortly...
In regard to the finish, I will be doing a french polish of padded shellac. I have read an older thread here about this process and someone stated it
was a 2 or 3 hundred hour finish... I cant remember the exact number.
I have done whole pieces of furniture that did not take that long. It takes a few minutes to pad on each layer of finish and then wait for it to
cure/dry enough for the next coat. (the next coat can dissolve the previous coat) A large table top should not take more than a few hours to polish
out with wetsanding and rottenstone... the finish is like none other when done... I dont know why, but it has a depth of color and feel that far
exceeds any modern finish. I have had clients pay big bucks for art deco reproduction furniture with the FP shellac finish. But it is not the huge
investment of time that it is commonly portrayed to be.
Plus... it is truly an environmentally friendly finish... just alcohol and the discarded chrysalis glue from insects. Double plus good!!
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
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Mood: Calm
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...Almost forgot... I am also scrapping my ebony bridge and doing a new one... I asked Jameel and Dr. Oud and found out that I naively made mine of
ebony before doing any research... Oh well... maybe a mix of walnut and maple... we'll see... Thanks for the advice both of you.
I really value this site and the contributors for the wealth of knowledge!
-Clayton
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Admirable progress and craftsmanship Clayton. Nicely done - and your completed oud will sound good!
I have used ebony bridges on lutes with some success but historically less heavy, close grained woods - such as pear wood, stained black - judging
from surviving lutes, seem to have been more generally used to give a more responsive instrument at lower string tensions (less mass to set in motion
is the theory). What structurally and acoustically applied to lutes will likely apply to ouds as well and vice versa.
Do you have more information on the university research that you mention - into the tuning of braces? I have always been suspicious (but remain open
minded) about the effectiveness of soundboard tuning methods often claimed to be used by some lute and guitar makers. These procedures, when described
in detail, always seem to defy a practical, foolproof methodology that might be useful and comprehensible to all.
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Nice work all around Clayton! Thanks for taking the time to share with us.
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
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Looks really nice, I can't wait to see and hear the finished product...
Chris Walters
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1064
Registered: 1-10-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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Astonishing to see how many "gold fingers" people in this forum. Keep on going, and looking forward to hearing the result.
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Calm
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Update... Glue up!
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdowning
Admirable progress and craftsmanship Clayton. Nicely done - and your completed oud will sound good!
I have used ebony bridges on lutes with some success but historically less heavy, close grained woods - such as pear wood, stained black - judging
from surviving lutes, seem to have been more generally used to give a more responsive instrument at lower string tensions (less mass to set in motion
is the theory). What structurally and acoustically applied to lutes will likely apply to ouds as well and vice versa.
Do you have more information on the university research that you mention - into the tuning of braces? I have always been suspicious (but remain open
minded) about the effectiveness of soundboard tuning methods often claimed to be used by some lute and guitar makers. These procedures, when described
in detail, always seem to defy a practical, foolproof methodology that might be useful and comprehensible to all. |
Thanks for the kind words jdowning...
as for the tuning information... it was late at night after working in the shop and I was just googling anything I could find. I did not bookmark info
but sort of concocted an amalgam of what I had been reading... I think, given the perspective of a few days to ponder, that this is like you said,
not practical and has no straightforward methodology...I am a bass player and when you look at basses from the 17th century.. the maker did not worry
about symmetry... and many other things that we would find unsatisfactory in our work. But when you look at and hear these 300 year old instruments...
they were built on intuition and the perfection and formulas we seek would have been ridiculous and irrelevant to them..
| Quote: | Originally posted by Jameel
Nice work all around Clayton! Thanks for taking the time to share with us. |
Thanks for checking in... I will be ordering some strings from you!
| Quote: | Originally posted by Christian1095
Looks really nice, I can't wait to see and hear the finished product... |
Thanks Christian1095... Me too... I will post samples when done.
| Quote: | Originally posted by suz_i_dil
Astonishing to see how many "gold fingers" people in this forum. Keep on going, and looking forward to hearing the result. |
thanks for checking in suz_i_dil,
What are "gold fingers" people?
Here is the update on progress...
Glue up day!
I made a new bridge of walnut with maple and ebony accents...
tossed the all ebony one I made before.
And of course I put in a label... LOL... well... it is number one after all!!
I am making tiles for the edge purfling and will start putting that on tonight!
See ya soon....
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suz_i_dil
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1064
Registered: 1-10-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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I used "gold fingers" as a kind of translation directly from french, an expression use for people who are very accurate whith their hands/ who are
doing great hand work.
Thanks for keeping update in your project.
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Ararat66
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1025
Registered: 11-14-2005
Location: Portsmouth, UK
Member Is Offline
Mood: mellow yellow
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I love the label - it has a historic feel to it ... mmmmI wonder
Leon
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slovak75
Oud Admirer
Posts: 6
Registered: 11-4-2008
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Mood: No Mood
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The Oud looks awesome! Take it from someone who had some serious trouble building a birdhouse, that takes some real talent!!!
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Calm
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Update...
| Quote: | Originally posted by suz_i_dil
I used "gold fingers" as a kind of translation directly from french, an expression use for people who are very accurate whith their hands/ who are
doing great hand work.
Thanks for keeping update in your project. |
suz_i_dil,
Thank you so much... I am humbled.
| Quote: | Originally posted by Ararat66
I love the label - it has a historic feel to it ... mmmmI wonder
Leon |
Thanks Ararat66,
Yeah, Dr. Oud's book says to put a label in and I thought it was a good idea so I made a really simple one in photoshop. I think it looks nice... It
adds a bit of gravity to the project!
| Quote: | Originally posted by slovak75
The Oud looks awesome! Take it from someone who had some serious trouble building a birdhouse, that takes some real talent!!! |
Thanks slovak75,
...again I am humbled....
I have to admit, although I have never made an instrument, I have been woodworking for more than 20 years... It really is a difficult undertaking and
while I am working really fast, this project is a total learning experience and I hope to take these lessons and make a much better one next time.
Update:
I did the tiles on the edgebanding last night and made the new pegbox... I did the back of the pegbox in a nice tiger maple this time... I love tiger
maple... I think a great oud bowl would be tiger maple and ebony... Hmmmmm....
See you soon...!
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paulO
Oud Junkie
Posts: 531
Registered: 9-8-2004
Location: California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Utz
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Hi Clayton !
It's looking very cool..thanks for all the updates.
Regards...Paul
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Calm
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Update
| Quote: | Originally posted by paulO
Hi Clayton !
It's looking very cool..thanks for all the updates.
Regards...Paul |
Thanks PaulO
I have finished the tiles...
I did a marquetry letter "C" on the beard.
I am going to glue up the pegbox and get on with finish...
This should go in the new thread... "My second Oud"
I have some wood I harvested from a very special tree that
grow in my area. The Engelmann Oak grows in the coastal plain in California and must be 15 miles from the sea and at an altitude of 500 - 4000 feet
ASL. They are a protected and endangered tree... (they grow in areas where people want to build homes) I live at 2000 ft. in an area called the Santa
Rosa Plateau. We have the best examples of the Engelmann Oaks here. It is a very dense wood and so beautiful. The rangers cleaned up some fallen trees
a few years ago and I grabbed the trunks and slabbed it for seasoning. I am going to use it on my next oud paired with tiger maple... here are some
pictures of the wood. It has a specific gravity of .93... Ironwood and Lignum Vitae are the few woods higher... It almost does not float.
I was going to use lacewood and tigermaple but this...
will be so awesome. I put a coat of shellac on a blank right off the saw...(not scraped or sanded) and it was unbelievable.
I encourage you to look around and see if there is wood that you can salvage from the fire stack!
See you soon...
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sabbassi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 570
Registered: 4-28-2008
Location: Morocoo
Member Is Offline
Mood: happy
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I'm very impressed with the precision. Very nice work can't wait to hear the sound
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Beautiful wood Clayton. Great to preserve a rare wood species - to be reincarnated in a musical instrument.
Labels and dates are important. It is amazing how easy it is to forget over time. Also label any special jigs so that 10 years 'down the road' you
will remember their purpose.
Your rosette design was popular among lute makers of the 16/17th C except that in lutes the rosette is cut directly into the sound board and was not
made separately. To make this possible the soundboard in the area of the rosette is made very thin - about 1mm. Also, the face of the rosette would be
finished by relief carving - further making the rosette appear more delicate.
By the way, great work in your positive efforts in saving a few of the draft horses. A popular breed among enthusiasts in this area is the blond maned
'Belgian'. I regret not having had the resources to save a draft horse from a local government 'Living history' museum some years ago. This gentle
giant of a horse was arbitrarily deemed as too old to be useful after 25 years of dedicated service. So poor "Pepper" was sent to the local farm
auction to be sold - for about 50 cents pound body weight - as horse meat. Not to mention the terror the animal must have suffered in its unfamiliar
journey to the slaughter house. I guess that the management of the museum were well satisfied with the $500 or so raised from the sale of the horse.
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Calm
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| Quote: | Originally posted by jdowning
Beautiful wood Clayton. Great to preserve a rare wood species - to be reincarnated in a musical instrument.
Labels and dates are important. It is amazing how easy it is to forget over time. Also label any special jigs so that 10 years 'down the road' you
will remember their purpose.
Your rosette design was popular among lute makers of the 16/17th C except that in lutes the rosette is cut directly into the sound board and was not
made separately. To make this possible the soundboard in the area of the rosette is made very thin - about 1mm. Also, the face of the rosette would be
finished by relief carving - further making the rosette appear more delicate.
By the way, great work in your positive efforts in saving a few of the draft horses. A popular breed among enthusiasts in this area is the blond maned
'Belgian'. I regret not having had the resources to save a draft horse from a local government 'Living history' museum some years ago. This gentle
giant of a horse was arbitrarily deemed as too old to be useful after 25 years of dedicated service. So poor "Pepper" was sent to the local farm
auction to be sold - for about 50 cents pound body weight - as horse meat. Not to mention the terror the animal must have suffered in its unfamiliar
journey to the slaughter house. I guess that the management of the museum were well satisfied with the $500 or so raised from the sale of the horse.
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Thanks jdowning,
It is really amazing wood and to think I almost burned it... well, I am really glad to have it. I think that I have a couple of Ouds and one or two
lute worth... I have a small lute form and was going to use maple and cherry but may substitute this for the cherry.
You are so right about the labeling issue... I have recently come across a set of jigs that I remembered making and using but had no idea of how or
why they were employed. After much thought, I did remember their rather mundane usage but that was after only a few months in the shop since being
made!!!
Great point.
... and even more tangentially....
I cannot tell you how deeply a story like that of "Pepper" makes me sad... I do not think that people value animal's lives in an appropriate way and
am constantly amazed that our species flourishes in spite of our disregard for plant and animal life.
I do not believe that this is sustainable.
any who...
Update:
first two coats of filler shellac.... we are in the home stretch!
[img]null[/img][img]www.anetprophet.com/oud/oud52.jpg[/img]
[img]null[/img][img]www.anetprophet.com/oud/oud53.jpg[/img]
I am making a new mold and will post pictures soon...
see y'all!
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Calm
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whoops...
[img]www.anetprophet.com/oud/oud52.jpg[/img]
[img]www.anetprophet.com/oud/oud53.jpg[/img]
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Clayton
Oud Maniac
Posts: 52
Registered: 10-24-2008
Location: On the ranch... California
Member Is Offline
Mood: Calm
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http://www.anetprophet.com/oud/oud52.jpg
http://www.anetprophet.com/oud/oud53.jpg
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GeorgeK
Oud Addict
Posts: 46
Registered: 7-16-2008
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Awesome work Clayton, you make it seem so effortless.
I love your style and I'm looking forward to the 2nd Clayton Creation 
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