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kasos
Oud Junkie
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Oh, and by the way, you're absolutely right about the various drums. I already own a Turkish dumbek - my first impression was that this could also
be used for Persian music in a pinch, but I am also very interested in filling out a broader and more characteristic range of drums for the region.
It would be very interesting to build some too.
I've also discovered that you've got a lot of pertinent material on your own site (unless I'm gravely mistaken, I assume that you're the Peyman of
"Peyman and his Tombak" fame...), which I'll be reviewing shortly. (though, given the amount of material there, it may take me a few days to fit
everything in!). I know I'll have further questions, but I'll wait until after I've read everything through before troubling you further....
All the best, Mark
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Peyman
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Mark,
The santoor is exclusively played with hammers (hammered dulcimer is another name for it). The kanun is plucked with finger picks. This picture
http://www.azer.com/aiweb/categories/magazine/ai113_folder/113_phot...
shows both a santoor and a kanun. The one on the bottom right is a santoor and the one behind is a kanun. Santoors tend to be shorter but deeper and
use metal strings. Kanuns are shallower and are longer.
As for the azeri links, these are great. I think you get my drift about the barbat and the oud. The barbat recreated here is very different than an
oud and is not at all like the barbat that was recreated in Iran. Last week, I saw a video of an azeri ensemble (I am azeri by the way, from the
Iranian side), that had this instrument. It has a soft bass sound. I think one of the good points made in the article is the fact that silk threads
and gut strings were used in these instruments, making them sound a lot different than the instruments today. You're right about persians and azeris
sharing a common cultural heritage (there are about 30 million people of azeri descent that live in Iran).
By the way, that's not me  . It's Peyman Nasehpoor. He is a very good
professional tombak player. He lives and teaches in Iran and has great knowledge about drums. His father is a famous meastro as well as one of the
greatest living voice teachers. He also runs Iran house of music http://www.iranhmusic.com which is not in English yet. You can definitely ask him questions about instruments too as he lives in Iran and has
access to many resources. He has a yahoo group which I read sometimes. I think him and his brothers have posted a lot of good info on their websites.
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Peyman
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http://www.erolparlak.com.tr/eng/baglama.php
Erol Parlak's website has some history on the saz. Unfortunately the pictures don't work any more.
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hurdygurdyguy
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Hey all,
I've nearly finished my erhu (thanks to the help and encouragement of Peyman and kasos with the gluing of the skin to the frame) and would like to
post a few pics but need to be advised as to how to do that.
Do I need to type in an url to a webhost? I see at the bottom of the Post reply window "attachment:" Do I use that to attach my pics in the post?
Randy aka hg guy
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LeeVaris
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| Quote: | Originally posted by hurdygurdyguy
I see at the bottom of the Post reply window "attachment:" Do I use that to attach my pics in the post? |
Yes...
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al-Halabi
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Mark,
I just read this thread and the interesting postings about the historical and geographical distribution of various musical instruments. I had one
general observation about medieval music that I thought would be relevant for your project representing the music of the period around the thirteenth
century.
Between the thirteenth and the sixteenth centuries art music was essentially the same throughout the Middle East. One would have heard the same kind
of music in Herat, or Damascus, or Tabriz, or Konya. There was during that period a shared tonal and modal system in the region. We know from the
biographies of the more accomplished medieval musicians that they circulated freely in various parts of this vast area, playing for patrons in
Samarkand and then in Cairo and then somewhere else where they found lucrative employment. They sang in Arabic, or Persian, or Turkish, but the
educated people at the time typically had command of two or three of these languages. And they played the same set of regional art music instruments,
which included primarily the oud, qanun, chang, nay, kemanche, and daf (or daire). The art music was in that sense a cosmopolitan, international music
that cut across ethnic and state boundaries. It helps to think of the parallels with European classical music, which developed the same international
character.
It was after the sixteenth century that increasingly distinct Arab, Turkish, and Persian music cultures develop, each with its particular tonal/modal
system, repertoire, style, and instruments. In the sixteenth century the music performed in the Ottoman court in Istanbul was still similar to what
was played in the Safavid court in Iran. Many of the court musicians in Istanbul were Iranians (captured in war or hired), and they played instruments
also current in Iran at the time, including the oud, santur, chang, and kamanche. In the seventeenth century the oud, santur, and chang disappeared
from the court ensemble (the kamanche was displaced later, in the early twentieth century, by the kemence that derived from the Greek lyra). This
shift in instrumentation was part of the development of a distinct Ottoman music, separate from the earlier, “international” style. The Turkish
ensemble Bezmara uses historical reproductions of these and other sixteenth-seventeenth century instruments in its performances of Ottoman music of
the period. They include the chang (cheng), kopuz (long-necked lute with a face made partly of wood and partly of skin), the kemanche, the qanun
(which had metal strings at the time), the santur, and the shahrud (bass oud, tuned an octave lower than the standard oud), as well as the oud,
tanbur, and ney. The ensemble has issued two CD albums that I know of. You might want to listen to them, both for the sound of the reproduced
instruments and the beauty of these old pieces (some of them are composed by sixteenth-century Iranian musicians employed in the sultan’s court).
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hurdygurdyguy
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Thanks Lee!
My erhu is early finished (hopefully I attached the pic properly). There is only one string at the moment as I have yet to finish the bow, which is
my next challenge.
I've made a good bow frame but am now stumped with what to use for the hair. I don't have access to proper horsehair, so at the suggestion of one
website (about making inexpensive folk instruments) I tried un-waxed dental floss. It's strong but won't hold rosin at all.
Is there anyone here with bowmaking experience who could give me some advice (alternative to horsehair etc)? I'm definitely not out to make a
professional grade bow, just a homemade one suitable for folk instruments etc...
Thanks
Randy
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Hank Levin
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| Quote: | Originally posted by hurdygurdyguy
Thanks Lee!
My erhu is early finished (hopefully I attached the pic properly). There is only one string at the moment as I have yet to finish the bow, which is
my next challenge.
I've made a good bow frame but am now stumped with what to use for the hair. I don't have access to proper horsehair, so at the suggestion of one
website (about making inexpensive folk instruments) I tried un-waxed dental floss. It's strong but won't hold rosin at all.
Is there anyone here with bowmaking experience who could give me some advice (alternative to horsehair etc)? I'm definitely not out to make a
professional grade bow, just a homemade one suitable for folk instruments etc...
Thanks
Randy |
When I was teaching folk instrument construction at the Middle East Dance & Music Camp, a few weeks before the camp I'd go to a couple of violin
repair shops and ask them to save the bowhairs for me from a few re-hairing jobs. Standards for classical violin bows are much higher than what is
needed for folk instruments. You may have to pick out the broken hairs from most of the tufts, and may have to combine several tufts when they've been
culled. Good luck! --Hank
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Peyman
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How did you do the bevels on the sound box?
I have a turkish bow used for folk music that's made from fishing lines. It works pretty well and holds rosin even after 10 years. There is also
Hervex bow hair, but I have never used it. It's very cheap.
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Peyman
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Speaking of Konya and Tabriz, today is the day the Rumi died in 1273. You can listen to some of traditional (Ayin) music played by the konya daravish
here: http://www.semazen.net/ you can also download some notations for some of their famous songs. I am not sure if Marco Polo went through Konya, but I
know he went by Tabriz. Also the ottomans are famous for their complex and very formal military music, played by the Mehter, probably not in existence
at the time of Marco Polo, but it's still worth a to take a look.
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kasos
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Wow! Nice to see all this new activity on this thread...
Randy, you've done wonderful work on your erhu - the sound box and hide resonator look just great! That's really the "business end" of the
instrument, isn't it, and I'm very optimistic that the sound is going to be quite good.
Although I expect it won't affect the sound, I note that the upper part of your instrument is a little different than the typical Chinese made
examples, in that it has a rudimentary pegbox - all the traditional ones I've seen, including my own, simply have the pegs go through an extension of
the same piece of wood as is used for the neck - the only difference being that on the area where the pegs go in, the neck's wood is squared, rather
than rounded - after the second, or highest peg, the extension of the neck then bends back a little, or ties to an ornamental attachment curving in
the same rearward direction. Again, as a question of innovation vs. traditional ornamentation, your pegs are also more western looking than one
usually sees - the typical Chinese style ones are very long indeed - mine are all of six inches long, and are groved lengthwise at the back. [My
Thai rebab also features very long pegs, as compared to the area of penetration, about 4 inches as compared to a one inch shaft - this seems to be a
common characteristic in Southeast asia, but I note that the Thai pegs often come without grooves - grooving the pegs seems to be a trait indicating
Chinese origin or influence - one sometimes sees it in Vietnamese instruments, for example]. I suppose, if imitating traditional models is at all
an issue, the instrument could be made to look rather more Chinese by carving out new pegs more on the traditional model - probably not all that hard
to do, especially if you or a friend owns a lathe (a friend of mine with a lathe was able to duplicate a long Thai style peg quite handily, when my 6
year old son accidentally stepped on the edge of the original peg and broke it a few months ago - never, ever leave your instrument lying on the
floor, however briefly!....).
These comments are offered as a matter of comparison, not criticism. I think your instrument is a great success exactly as it is, and it will
certainly play just as effectively as one with more traditional design.
Out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of your instrument? - The overall length for mine is 31 1/2 inches, top to bottom...
On the question of hair, if you want to build your own bow, I would recommend, as Hank does, finding some individual or group of persons with an
ongoing connection to bowed string playing. It's almost guaranteed that they will have one or more bows that for one reason or another have become
inoperative, while leaving the hair intact - the economics of bows are such that, except for high end bows, in most cases it's less costly to buy a
new bow than to repair or rehair the old one, which leads to an almost endless supply of old hair. (I've got at least 2 bows in that condition right
now). You might also consider just buying a cheap kid's partial size violin bow - you should be able to get one for under $50.00, and sometimes much
less. Remember, it's your erhu that's the rare item, not the bow....
And, in time, please feel free to discuss playing the erhu....I don't mean to alarm you unduly, but the erhu is one of the more volatile bowed
instruments one can play - there's so much that can go wrong (even more so than on a violin, say, since the instrument is so fundamental in its
structure, and the player must control everything himself - for example there's no fingerboard to help equalize string tension generated from
stopping notes, whereas some of this occurs more naturally as a result of instrument structure on the violin or other instruments with fingerboards,
such as the oud). I think you'll find it very rewarding if you persevere - precisely because you're doing more at once, on more levels, it's
probably more engaging, note for note, in a wholistic, organic sort of way than a more elaborate instrument such as the violin. Just be very patient
with yourself at first (and since it's possible to come up with some truly horrendous sounds, try to practice out of the earshot of significant
others, at first, if at all possible!).
Al Halabi, Peyman, thanks for your continuing help and support in my Polo project - I can barely express how useful and inspiring your contributions
have been. By way of update, I've been able to order (on an affordable basis) two new instruments for the project in December - what appears to be
a Kashgar-made Dutar (yet another case of an E-bay seller with an uncertain appreciation of the origin or even the name of the instrument), and a 16
string gu-zheng zither. Since the Dutar is a fairly ubiquitous central asian instrument type, I'm quite optimistic about getting some good musical
mileage from it in the context of the different settings of the play. I'm excited about the gu-zheng too, not so much because of its versatility,
but because it evokes the far east so effectively - it sounds very much like the Japanese Koto, with which it is closely related.
I'm making some progress restoring the very beat-up indian sarangi obtained last month. I've been able to get the main melody string playable, at
least, and I'm getting hints of this bowed instrument's characteristic sound, despite the fact that about half the sympathetic strings are still a
mess. Those really thick gut strings are a wonder - not loud, but such a thick, rich tone, with a physicality quite unlike modern cello or double
bass strings.... Though I'm informed that these are typically stopped with the fingernail, like the lyra or kemence, it's been very tempting to play
it like the erhu, with the pad of the fingers - physically, it's very satisfying that way, and seems to really milk the richness of the gut string,
although one has to admit that the fingernail-stopped sound has more edge to it, and is very much the effect one hears reproduced on many recordings.
Peyman, in looking up further references, I've been delighted to find out that the sarangi was traditionally used in qawalli music, before the
harmonium became customary. I don't yet know how far back the sarangi-qawalli link goes, but it's nice to know that I may be in the ballpark,
already, in terms of having some of the appropriate instrumentation for the East Indian part of the story. Still looking for some indication of how
far back the use of what is now known as the Afghani rebab goes, and whether its use can be traced to medieval times in the Indian sub-continent.
My guess at this point is that it probably was present, but it's still only a guess...
My plan has been to obtain at least one plucked string, one bowed string, and one percussion instrument from each major region, so as to get either a
reasonably convincing regional ensemble sound, or variety between solos when I want it. So far, I've got bowed strings for pretty much all the
regions I want to cover (bowed strings are very much where some major part of my heart lies, I guess), but I'm still missing plucked strings from
India and Persia.
There's also the question of what the most appropriate percussion instrument for these regions would be, given the time period. I've got a Turkish
doumbek, and I'm reasonably confident I can justify its use in many of the settings. I've also got access to a frame drum (though it's a Celtic
Bodhran - I'm going to have to research just how this type of instrument varies from middle eastern versions). I love the sound of the Indian
tabla, and it would make a great contrast to the doumbek, but I'm suspicious that its modern version has not been around long enough to justify its
use in this play, if I want to be really historically correct.... What about the persian tonbak, in this respect?
Best wishes to all,
Mark
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Peyman
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Hi Mark,
I am glad I can help. I am actually building myself a dotar. I am using a gourd. Gourds were used in many folk instruments from Turkey to India and
still used for instance in Turkish Kabak keman and Indian sitars, tampuras are gourds too. At first I thought the gourd split in two would look like
the back of a dotar or tanbur (this shape is called Kashkooli in Farsi) a semi oval shape versus a tear drop shape seen in the setar and some tanoors.
But when I opened it I noticed it looks more like a sitar's sound box, sort of hear shaped. The thickness of the gourd is about 11mm and I have been
chipping away to make it about 3-4 mm. As I remove more skin the gourds shells get tougher.
I am now thinking about how I can make the neck joint strong or how thick I should get the neck joint. The dotars from Khorasan have 2 cm necks. The
gourds neck is about 4 cm. I'll see what I can do.
Albert Lavignac (musicologist, French?) wrote that the oldest bowed instruments were found in India, dating about 5000 BC. They were called
Ravanastron. And I am sure the connection between bowed instruments and many kinds of Indian music is very strong.
I have a feeling that the current afghan rabab has some close connection to the persian Tar. The word rabab has been used to indicate bowed
instruments, but in the old persian language it meant 'heavy or sorrowfull music.' Afghan robabs have sympathetic strings and it might be that it
shares a common ancestory to the Tar. I have an antique robab, which has a very sonorous bass sound. The robab has found its way into modern persian
art music because persian art music lacks bass instruments. The persian made robabs are somewhat different. They have longer necks with more frets and
a smaller number of sympathetic strings (about 6). They actulally look a lot like the Tar.
On the question of the tonbak, I know it's a very old instrument. Despite its simple look, it's a very complicated instrument to play. All parts of
the instrument are playable and its sound is very different than a darbuka. See Nasehpour's website: http://nasehpour.tripod.com/peyman/
He has info on many middle eastern drums.
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kasos
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Hi again! This is addressed to Randy, re the erhu bow. I did my last post fairly late last night, and realized this morning that I really didn't
talk at all about what I should probably have begun with, which is that the traditional erhu bow is used in a completely different way than a western
bow, or middle eastern bow, and is constructed a little differently to take this unique playing style into account.
As you know, the erhu has only two strings - nothing particularly unique about that, many rebab type instruments from Egypt to Thailand share this
characteristic. However, in China, an ingenious method was devised of taking advantage of this fact, to economize on bow movement. Instead of only
rosining up one side of the bow hair, the hair has rosin applied to it on both sides, and then the hair is inserted between (!) the strings, and
reattached to the bow (to accommodate this, the hair is looped on one side, and it catches onto a sort of hook provided at one end of the bow, usually
at the tip, or narrow end of the shaft of the bow). Then you play the string on the far side by pushing the bow into it, and the string closest to
your bow hand by pulling the hair into the string instead. It's a little strange, if you're used to other bowing techniques, but it's certainly
functional, even elegant in its economy, from an applied engineering perspective.
All of that being said, I have to admit that I also sometimes bow my own erhu in a non traditional way. Depending on my mood, I occaisionally use
the bow on the outside of the strings, using western cello hold (palm down, thumb in the gap of the frog), or in a middle eastern ( or viola da gamba,
if you prefer) hold, palm up, thumb on top of the shaft, third and fourth fingers on the inside of the hair. My own experience suggests the easiest
for controlling the sound is the middle eastern hold - but I find that this can be affected by many factors, including the sound quality I'm looking
for, and my degree of physicality that day - ie, whether I'm agressively digging into the string, or skidding on the surface. The erhu is highly
susceptible to small changes in pressure, so each of these things can be factors. The bowing style can emphasize your natural playing style or pull
back from something that you might be overdoing....
Hope all this helps.
Take care, Mark
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hurdygurdyguy
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Mark and Peyman, thanks for the nice remarks on the erhu!
Yes, the design is a bit of a departure from a traditional erhu. The main dowel does not extend through the sound box as a traditional does but is
glued to the top with the aid of a wood brace. I saw this on a website showing the work of a Chinese maker who made this innovation in order to allow
the sound box to resonate as much as possible. Thought this was a good idea so I adopted it for mine.
In the interest of time, skill (or rather lack of), and materials and tools at hand I simplified the peg area to what is shown. I was able to use
two old hurdy gurdy pegs (longer than violin or viola pegs...and much cheaper) but they are still smaller than the massive pegs found on a
traditional erhu. And I fashioned an adjustable sliding nut rather than a wrapped/tied one. And the back of the sound box is not nearly as
intricately carved as traditional ones, just holes made with various diameters on a drill press, but I think it still looks good.
The length is about 73.6 cm. The current string scale length is about 44.5 cm but that is adjustable as I experiment with string gauge and tuning.
I'd like to tune it to d and a or d and g (to make it compatible with my hurdy gurdy). Mark, how is yours tuned, what string gauges to you use and
what is your string scale length?
Todays project will probably be trying some fish line for bow hair. I'm a fly fisherman so I have lots of fishline of various sizes.
Randy
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hurdygurdyguy
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Peyman, I forgot to add: the sound box bevel cuts I made on my bandsaw and then used a belt sander to correct any gaps in the joints before gluing.
Once it was glued I applied some fiberglass resin to each joint on the inside to strengthen the joint.
I soaked the goatskin for about 10 minutes, applied glue to the box (the edges of which I rounded off so as not to have such a sharp edge for the skin
to wrap around on), wrapped this tightly with string, pulled the skin as best as I could to work out as many wrinkles as possible (it still has some
wrinkles at the corners) and then lightlly clamped all the sides. When the glue had set I carefully trimmed all the excess. Worked like a charm!
The bridge's bottom edge is also eased as to lessen the likelyhood of cutting into the skin when the strings are brought up to tension
Randy
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Peyman
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Very innovative Randy. Your instrument looks great. What kind of wood is the sound box made from? And did you taper the pegs?
BTW, good quality horsehair is expensive but you can get horse hair from luthier suppliers (lmii, etc) and they are not that expensive or you can find
a horse and trim some hair off it! I thought you were looking for alternatives. That's why I suggested the fishing lines.
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kasos
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Hi again.
This time, my comments are addressed to Peyman....Thanks for your latest contribution, helpful and informative as always.
I'm very excited about your dotar - if you can, I'd love to see some pictures, when it's ready. Mine just got ordered, I probably won't see it in
Flin Flon until some time next year - so we'll compare notes, in time. Although I've posted at least one picture before myself, it was with a
borrowed camera, so I'll not make too many promises about pictures yet. I've got enough new instruments since that time that it might make sense to
have a new "group" photo taken. Perhaps Santa Claus will help with my own digital camera shortly....
About the ravanastron - I had bumped into references to this instrument before, chiefly in European sources dating from the 19th century, or in later
works using the 19th century scholarship as their source material. I'm thinking of books like "Violin Making, as it is and was", by Ed Theron (I
hope I've got that right, this is by memory), first edition 1885 or so. Fetis, a famous French encyclopedist, also included a reference to the
ravanastron. Rightly or wrongly, I have been suspicious of these references, in no small measure because they come from a time when historical
scholarship was sometimes not very discriminating. I also think that much early european scholarship is strongly influenced by the fact that
expansion in India by both England and France occurred very early on, and was of course consumated by incorporation of India into the British raj. I
think that as a result, source material from India was a lot more accessible in the 19th century, and historians, very practicallly, elaborated
theories based on the material they had at hand. For example, early on, the British Museum obtained a copy of a ravanastron (which incidentally,
seems to be much the same instrument, as a matter of construction, as the Egyptian rababa), and this no doubt helped stimulate European scholarly
imagination.
Some months ago, I looked closely at the passages in "Violin Making", referred to above, and observed that the really hard evidence (temple carvings,
mostly) dated from the 800-1300 C.E. period, whereas the earlier references being relied upon, were in words only, vaguer in their content, and often
seemed to be more in the character of tradition and legends. Clearly bowed instruments have been around in India for a long time, but it may be
quite possible to reconcile the available hard evidence with a theory of origin in central asia between 200 and 400 C.E., the time of the earliest
Chinese references. The central asian theory remains tempting, because the patterns of spread of bowed instruments from that time forward, eastward
into China and westward into the middle east, is relatively easy to track, and forms a neat, convincing picture.
It would be very interesting though, to see someone with a good musicological background combined with training in Sanskrit have a good hard look at
the original sources, and see if the 19th century historians got it right after all.
By the way, there's some very lucid material on spread of bowed instruments, from 800 C.E. on, in the following article about the rebec:
ww.crab.rutgers.edu/~pbutler/rebec.html .
I have other questions to ask about the robab you have, but these are extensive enough to warrant posponing them for another day, given the length of
this post already....
Mark
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hurdygurdyguy
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Peyman,
The soundbox is oak (you'll laugh at this, it was a 6 ft. length of pre-finished flooring I found at the hardware store!), the dowel is maple, I
think, the back of the soundbox is walnut as is the peg section, and the nut and dowel brace are cherry.
I did taper the peg holes. I eyeballed the taper of the pegs and drilled a smaller hole on one side and a slighltly larger hole on the other (only
about 1/3 of the way in) and then found a round tapered file and laboriously reamed out the hole. By luck the taper of the file was nearly the same as
the peg so they fit very well, turn smoothly and hold tight!
One of these days I'll have to invest a little bit and get a violin tapered reamer and peg shaver
I checked out a luthier supply website and found the Hervex hair you mentioned above...looks pretty good (and much more affordable...even jigs and
tools for tying the hair), I may get some of that after I try out the fishline...and some friends have offered the hair off one of their horses!
LOL
Randy
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kasos
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Hi Randy. Nice to see the back of your erhu - I really like the design - simple but satisfying. It complements the look of the rest of the
instrument in a quite stylish way. I wish I had more specific technical things to say about the woodworking, etc., which looks very smart indeed to
my eye. But my own skills are very rudimentary, and my instrument building relies heavily on collaborative work with friends who are more expert
than me - thank goodness I've got them!....
You asked about tuning - At least one web site I've seen (and given my home location, and the absence of in-person teachers or mentors, I've had to
rely on the web for virtually all of my information) refers to the erhu as having a range and sound similar to that of a viola, so one would expect
the lowest string to be tuned somewhere below middle C. However, I haven't found much more specific info on what tuning they use in China, so I've
tried quite a variety of different tunings, and different strings, too, particularly since the erhu I have had only one string on it when I first got
it.
I suspect that a tuning in fifths would be pretty normal - but in order to expand the range, for most of the time I've had it, I've had it tuned to a
minor 7th, with the low string to E below middle C and the top string to D above middle C. I'm sure that I'm losing some of the sympathetic string
vibration that I would get with 5ths or fourths, but I find that the snakeskin top amplifies the sound sufficiently that's it's not as necessary to
rely on sympathetic vibration to fill out the sound, as it might be with some wood topped instruments (my Thai rebab, for example). If anything, I
found I had to tinker with the position of the bridge to cut down the sound output somewhat, since it's very easy for the instrument's sound to get
"boomy" and coarse, at least to my ear.
[I'm able to make this wide spacing between strings work, in no small measure, because I'm doing some of the string-stopping with my thumb (the fleshy
part on the bottom side, nail towards me). I'm stopping with the pad of the finger tip, applied lightly (but not so lightly as for harmonics on the
guitar or violin).]
The lower string, as I mentioned earlier, came with the instrument, and it plays comfortably from about the E I've currently got it tuned to (I've
taken it as low as D below middle C in a pinch, but it really doesn't work well any lower than that) up to about B flat. I'm afraid I don't have a
string gauge measurement. I tried a few different strings (no exhaustive search, just what I had around) on the top position, and finally settled on
an electric guitar E string (like settling for vanilla at an ice cream shop with 80 flavors, I guess). I'd have loved to try violin strings, but
they're just not long enough. I'm sure your hurdy gurdy strings, if long enough, should be serviceable.
By the way, the instrument was also bridgeless when I got it, so I experimented a lot with different woods and designs. I'm still not sure that what
I've come up with is what I'll settle for long term, but it was the best and most flexible of the lot I've tried to date. To make it, I carved and
filed a weather worn small piece of what I think is spruce from an old fence, and came up with a shallow arch, curved at the top, and two wide legs on
each side. This isn't what the Chinese bridges look like, but it best satisfied the sort of sound I was looking for. What you have on the picture
you posted is closer to the traditional type, but still not exactly the same - there are no shortage of pictures of the Chinese bridges on the
internet, and they're relatively affordable, if ever you should decide to order one separately, if only for comparison purposes.
Just a last thought about the bow - why don't you try making several (including one with your friends 'au naturel' horsehair) - the length, weight and
flexibility of the bow all have their impact on sound quality, and it may well be difficult to know just what works best for you until after you have
tried a few different things out.... Even after you've settled on your favorite, it's fun to change bows every so often, just to keep things fresh.
take care, Mark
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hurdygurdyguy
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
Registered: 11-24-2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
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| Quote: | Originally posted by kasos
Just a last thought about the bow - why don't you try making several (including one with your friends 'au naturel' horsehair) - the length, weight and
flexibility of the bow all have their impact on sound quality, and it may well be difficult to know just what works best for you until after you have
tried a few different things out.... |
I was thinking exactly that! The bow was pretty easy to make, an afternoon at best...here's a pic of the frog assembly. I fashioned together an eyed
screw to a metal spacer, to the other end of which was a long machine screw, the nut to which was glued/embedded into the wood piece which was sanded
round like the dowel. A bit of minimalistic elegance  )
Thanks for the thoughts on your strings. I'm also finding all my info on the net!
Randy
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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That bow is pretty neat looking. I am tempted to make one too. I guess the fishing lines worked?
I'll post pictures of my dotar when it's done.
Here is a picture of Torkamans playing dotars and a very small kamanche:
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
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Mark, what you say about bowed instruments makes sense. It makes sense that bowed instruments would be favored by nomadic people that do everything
with bows (hunting, attacking, making fire, competitions) and would figure out many other uses for a bow.
The rebec website is very comprehensive. I like fig 15. The fiddle is held vertical while the rebec is being played like a violin. Then on fig 21, the
rebec is held upside down.
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Paul007
Oud Addict
Posts: 38
Registered: 8-17-2005
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Hello every body,
It is amazing to see such in-depth discussions, intellectually and artistically. I can't help but think that I "fell into" the right forum by chance!
Thank you all, for sharing your knowledge and experiences. I found all discussions are interesting and stimulating! I'll come back after some more
search! Thank you all!
Happy new year!
Paul
Paul
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oudmaker
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-23-2004
Location: Philadelphia-USA
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My Rebab
Folks
Attached is the REBAB I made in 1970ies for myself. This is probably my 15 or 20 th rebab I have made. First one was in 1956. I have detailed pictures
but I dont take advantage of Mike's generosity
Regards
Dincer
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hurdygurdyguy
Oud Lover
Posts: 19
Registered: 11-24-2005
Location: Pacific Northwest
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Re: My Rebab
Dincer, that's a mighty fine looking rebab! Thanks for the pic!!
Mark, I'd tried a number of hair materials for my homemade bow for my erhu...cotton thread came the closest (held the rosin the best), but I broke
down and ordered an erhu bow from an importer (good price...$25). And I ordered erhu strings. What a difference proper materials makes!! I was just
using guitar strings before and it seemed difficult to get a proper tone (I just guessed on the string gauge I needed based on a string length
comparable to a mandolin or mandola). With the real bow and strings I'm able now to play the erhu!! What fun! I found the website of Jiebing Chen
which had a short video of basic bowing, so now I practice bowing everyday!! 
One question: how much tension from the frog should the bow have? I'm assuming the bow hair should not be slack but I'm thinking the bow iteslf
should not be bending too much (if at all) from too much tension, right?
Thanks!
Randy
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