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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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No, it feels wonderful in your hand and I hold it like a risha, but as you can imagine it's more filligree. Definitly worth a try, I think ... even if
it only may be to get a feeling, how historic playing with an eagle feather felt. But who knows ... some people might through away their rishas after
testing the feather?
But maybe I should try a different technique  ... look HERE ... feather rocks 
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Definetely worth a shot man!
BTW how did you get some goose feather? Did u just rip some feather out of your gooses neighbor?
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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I bought a pack of about 10 feathers for 1.30 € in a craft supplies shop ... they were labeled as Indian Feathers ... available in white, red, yellow, green and blue ... I prefer natural white as you
can see.
| Quote: | | Did u just rip some feather out of your gooses neighbor?
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I hope my tip doesn't end in cruelty to animals. It should be possible to buy similar feathers cheap in every country ... or maybe even get some free
from a slaughterhouse.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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NIce one Man!
Its pretty tempting to just rip some feathers. LOL
Thanks for the tip
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Imagine somebody would rip you some hair for his violin bow ... that's how the bird would feel.
Ripping a feather incorrectly is very painful for the bird, might bleed like hell and the feather follicle might be destroyed, so the feather can't
grow back.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Quote: Originally posted by Aymara  |
Ripping a feather incorrectly is very painful for the bird, might bleed like hell and the feather follicle might be destroyed. |
Dont worry man! I'm not going to do such an act. Although it should be with consent!
Does anybody here wants To add their Reesha Pictures? Please Feel Free To POST.
Thanks
Flip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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But maybe others feel tempted too, that's why I explained that a bit more detailled. To give this off-topic an end, let me explain a bit more:
There is a further reason for my explanations ... I'm moderator in a bird keeper & breeder forum and learned a lot about birds, especially parrots
and parakeets, even medical treatment.
And I can tell you, that most people underestimate birds totally ... e.g birds have emotions like funereal, which I saw myself, when one of my birds
died. And they are much more intelligent, than mankind ever knew. In a TV documentation film I saw an experiment with a crow to test it's
intelligence. They put feed in a small cup with a handle above and placed this cup in a Plexiglas tube so the crow couldn't reach it. And they gave
him a long piece of hard wire. And guess what ... the crow formed a hook out of the wire and fetched the cup out of the tube  This experiment revolutionized brain research.
Maybe this helps to see animals from a different more friendly point of view.
Oh, and because you like photos ... below one of my couples of Aymara parakeets, who are intelligent too ... they opened the screws of my Hi-Fi
loudspeakers, which hold the cable and they put out the cable. Maybe they didn't like my music?
[file]12335[/file]
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Nice to hear how you take care about your Birds!
Ok Lets Get serious Again and Back to our Treble Nylon Dilemma.
Thanks Chris!
You've always been Helpful Here!
Shalom my Friend,
Flip
A Little Off-topic for a Bit.....
Does anybody here can tell the difference of Nylgut and Rectified? Which one of them sustains longer?
Shoukran
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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ameer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 464
Registered: 9-14-2009
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I have tried both nylgut and rectified nylon on my Sukar. The first course was not too different, but there was quite a bit of difference in the
second course.
With the Aquila it sounds like this.
But with nylon it sounds more like this.
Notice how the second course in the first recording sounds almost wound but still with that nylon flavor. It's a fairly subtle difference so it might
take a few tries to hear it.
I can't speak about sustain because I have never done a proper side by side comparison where all other factors are equal or at least as close to equal
as you're going to get.
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Thank U ameer!
Sorry I have Post on the wrong Page It should be on my PVF string Thread.
Sorry my bad
Thanks For the Tip
Shalom My friend.
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 694
Registered: 11-19-2007
Location: Newcastle upon tyne. UK
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Mood: chords prefer frets
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Hi Phillip, Finally replied to Your U2U, all the best with your risha
research
Best Wishes, Charlie
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Thanks Charlie!
Wishing You All The Best Good Long Life Man!
Salamat,
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Hi again!
Though this comment was originally ment as a joke, I tried Lloyd Miller's strange feather technique today by holding the feather upright between index
finger and thumb nearly as a pencil ... sounds better, but tremelo is more difficult, though not impossible with enough training ... and it's
important to sand the quill's top to a round shape.
The more I play with a feather and the more I get used to it, I like it more and more.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
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Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Does the Feather wears faster than other material?
Hope's It stays Long so we can have a lot of fun with it!
It Looks Really funny Holding it that way! )
Flip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Yes, I think so, but I'm astonished how robust the feather's quill is.
| Quote: | | Hope's It stays Long so we can have a lot of fun with it!
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I bought a set of more than ten feathers ... no problem if one weares out.
| Quote: | | It Looks Really funny Holding it that way! |
Yes ... I'm still experimenting, which approach works best.
But what I like about the feather is, that it is the most traditional way to play oud.
But I also tried fingerpicking, which so far sounds best to my liking ... I would never have expected that ... man, that bass is deeeeeep
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Cow Horn Risha GOOD
I've been playing with cow horn for a week or so, and I definitely like it.
Black Delrin has one advantage, and that is its permanence. You shape it, and nothing short of sandpaper/broken glass or all out world war will change
it more than a few microns. It's a superb material, and in the absence of horn, I think it's tops.
I have pheasant and turkey feathers. Hmmmm, well, not too exciting for me, anyway. No good grasping surface. A good comfortable grip is important. I
think feathers were used to make rishas, but who knows how.
Horn is a subtle notch above Delrin. That oil-cured Cow horn from MidEast is remarkably strong. It's both flexible and stiff enough. It looks and acts
much like a workable plastic. These are not brittle shaving discards off a hoof, or a holy-man's fingernail clippings.
The shape of the MidEast Cow horn blanks is excellent, similar to their Delrin. Averaging 8" by 7/16" by 0.032".
The sound is unique and very interesting. New timbres are achievable by varying the shape, where you pick, the angle, etc. Don't expect a
dramatically different timbre from an optimized Delrin, but it's meaty, and you'll discover new ones.
The improvement is especially interesting on plain nylon. That unappealing "plastic banjo" sound that you get with ordinary rishas on nylon can
be helped with cow horn.
Cow horn lets you create thin and raspy edges and surfaces which sound unusually good on attack, like partly "bowing" the string. Horn and
feather and (horse)hair are similar materials, which "grasp" the string. For some reason, Delrin will not form a raspy edge. This "bite" fades
gradually as the roughness of an edge starts to smooth out. It takes a couple hours of playing to fade, and only seconds to restore with a swipe on
fine sandpaper. We're talking about sub-micron level, not visible wear. Visible wear is not likely a major issue, if you think about old knives with
bone handles.
The snap of thin horn is much more interesting than any plastic. A thin tip holds up surprisingly well.
The dynamic range is unbeatable, for some reason. The soft sounds are delicate, the loud is LOUD.
Recommended. Worth trying for sure.
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katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
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Mood: Gypsy
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gentlemen : my advice is to use the AVAILABLE risha, ones that you get cheap and easy. There was time I used guitar picks because of their
availability. It's all about habit and the time you spend to practice independently of the risha material.
http://www.instrumentalsavings.com/Oud-Pick-Turkish-10-Pack-p/oudw....
3.68$ the pack  and you save 1.22$ !
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Mood: No Mood
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I think, "feather is not feather" ... there are different sizes of the feather itself and the quill's thickness and stability varies too.
Surface is realy a key word. I tried several goose feathers of middle size to find out, that some lie good in hand and others don't. Some
quills were useable, others horrible. But after using a fine file to form the quill's top to an equal round shape, I began to like it.
| Quote: | | A good comfortable grip is important. |
Shure ... you have to try several feathers. I bet some people will prefer longer feathers and/or thicker quills. And it's a difference, if you hold it
like a risha or more like a pencil, though I think Lloyd Miller's way of holding it, was as wrong as his way holding the oud.
I think, it would be interesting to do some research on the history of the risha, especially the eagle's feather ... I started a new thread about this topic. I think it's worth it.
| Quote: | | I think feathers were used to make rishas, but who knows how. |
In my opinion make means in this case shaping the quill's top. But one has to be careful with shaping, because the quill is hollow ... a
blood vessel.
| Quote: |
The improvement is especially interesting on plain nylon. |
I got a similar experience with the feather. But the sound on wound strings is also different ... warmer, deeper.
| Quote: | | Horn and feather and (horse)hair are similar materials, which "grasp" the string. |
Good hint.
Good point. That's why I decided to first use my beloved guitar plectrum (I use this special one since years), until I realy get used to the fretless
fingerboard to better concentrate to picking techniques and different rishas afterwards.
| Quote: | | 3.68$ the pack and you save 1.22$ ! |
They also have horn rishas, but look at the price 
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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"It's all about habit and the time you spend to practice independently of the risha material. "
I see. You think guitar picks are fine, as is the rubbery stuff? Katokofka, let's agree to disagree. For someone who already has a lot of "habit", it
might not matter as much. But for someone who's learning, every little bit helps, and some shapes and materials are better than others.
Ok, it's getting boring. If it irritates you for some people to be "picky", and to experiment, please, at least don't spread confusion that no oud
teacher supports. A guitar pick is poor for a lot of reasons, and limited in timbre. A flat risha that's over 10cm sits well in the hand and helps
develop loose wrist motion instead of the fingers clutching the small pick.
Being long, flat and coming to a rounded point apparently works best for a lot of people, since ready-made rishas are all like that, and you can see
it's what 99% of the people play.
The price varies hugely and is in any case not a huge issue. Collar inserts are not bad at all, and very cheap. You can make picks out of any plastic.
It's hard to be sure what they will ship mail order, you can get good Delrin or gummy-bear soft ones for the same price. In the US they all come from
MidEast, resold at $15 or $3, it's the same picks. Shop for best price and confirm it's the very shiny black stuff taped together in little bundles of
10.
[file]12406[/file]
Same with the Cow Horn. Only one source, shop by price.
I stand by what I said, that the black Delrin blanks from MidEast are the most sturdy, easy to shape, and will work well for most people, more durable
than nylon, polyethylene, vinyl, etc. The oiled cowhorn from MidEast also works well.
As to the sound, if you don't care, please let those of us who do, have the enjoyment.
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Marcus
Oud Junkie
Posts: 446
Registered: 11-26-2008
Location: Stuttgart/ South Germany
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Mood: Lost in music
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| Quote: |
They also have horn rishas, but look at the price |
$7.43 for 6 horn rishas its a fair price, or?
I think I`ll give them a try.
Greets
Marcus
Playing the oud is like feeding my soul with peace
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Mood: No Mood
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Yes, shure ... I just wanted to say, it's about the double of the standard rishas.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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They last a long time, and you can get 2 rishas
out of the longer horn ones (8-9 inches).
What I have as MidEast Delrin is labeled
OUDQ
Oud pick, Plastic, 10 Pack
Mid east mfg Inc.
Made In Egypt
8-4473100961-7
and Cow Horn labeled:
OUDP
Oud Pick, Cow Horn, 6 Pack
Mid east mfg Inc.
Made In Egypt
8-4473100960-0
Also says: Bavly Music, made in Egypt
Distributed exclusively in the USA
by MidEast Mfg. Inc.
maybe someone can line up a cheap direct buy in Egypt?
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Hello Guys!
I Have Picture's here. These are the risha's I used. Unfortunate it's not that Boutique as others have. Hopefully I can Buy some different
Materials.
I Use 5 different Risha's:
[file]12492[/file]
(Left to Right) Heavy to Light tensions:
1st Risha = Thick Nylon Plastic which is bendable but doesn't come back to its original position as fast as the thin one. This One Is More Harder for
tremolo technique. and sometimes I get Caught on the Strings. And Sounds Fat and Warm.
[file]12494[/file]
2nd Risha = Jameel's Talonite Risha's. I sanded the tip as same shape as normal pyramide tip but a little thinner on the edges. Very Powerful and
Loud.
3rd Risha = Pyramid Pro Medium, Has a good strong tension but enough to bend and be flexible also. Loud sound also, Has a Warm tame sound.
[file]12496[/file]
4th Risha = Medium/Light Tension sounds a little bit sharp but not much.For me Its sounds flat.
[file]12500[/file]
5th Risha = Plastic Risha from Al Assel Maurice shehata. Considered Light Tension Closed to Pyramis Standard light Rishas. This one Has More width.
6th & 7th Risha = Pyramid Standard Light, Very thin and Flexible. No Power and Volume and Sounds Very "Clicky"
[file]12498[/file]
Which Risha Material has a light tension on it but still flexible?
Please POST Some rishas u used. It woud be very helpful to see whick kinds do you use.
You can also check my other thread regarding " How to avoid a sharper attack sound" on risha's.
I Have Post Some Videos for u to see which ones best sounding for your ears. I Demo 4 Different Rishas.
Thanks
Feel Free to Comment!
Gracias
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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FLIPAX
Oud Junkie
Posts: 311
Registered: 10-13-2009
Location: Dubai, U.A.E
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bayyati Shuri.....
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Which Risha Material has a light tension on it but still flexible?
Please POST Some rishas u used. It woud be very helpful to see whick kinds do you use.
Gracias
Philip
Every time I Hear The Oud, I fall into a Deep Long Trance of Perpetual Bliss!
"Naseem Al Rooh"
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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My cable tie is veeeery flexible
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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