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Koya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 132
Registered: 6-24-2005
Location: Hungary
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Mood: Happy
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Vasile & cobza fans
There is Vasile and their pupils in the Moldavian folk camp in 2003.
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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hey Koya!
Mechanical pegs would be a lot nicer, but I absolutely agree there is a certain charm to the wooden pegs on this little thing.
Yes, I would like to have some contact info, I'm thinking about pimping my cobza or maybe let them build a new one to my specifications... who
knows...
Thanks,
Andi
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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Adam: It might play like crap, but I'm not planning to actually dedicate my life to the ud, as I already play quite a lot of stringed instruments and
function as a producer too - I'd just like to learn the basics of Ud and I don't think it would be wise in my case to splash out a year's saving on
one... But then again, 125 might be a little TOO cheap. Maybe I should go for the 270 euros? or look elswhere? I've already decided I would like to
have a Turkish one.
Another problem is I am very impatient and I want it NOW NOW NOW!  
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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So I went out, tried some, and went for the more expensive one. Sounds fine to me, plays good too. I am now a happy Ud ánd Cobza owner...!
The Ud is made by Ilyas Cakan (cedilla under the C) in Izmir, Turkey. I looked for him on Google but no luck. maybe some of you know more about this
builder, but since this is the Cobza thread, I'm going to start a new thread, if you dont mind.
Plus I just realized I'm new to this forum but haven't properly introduced myself! So far I think you guys are great!
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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OK - so I restrung my cobza with oud strings, using the four lighter courses. I tuned it to AEAD but found I could easily tune up to BEAD as well,
effectively creating a mini-oud (with turkish tuning).
While I know lose the octave-effect at the two top strings, I find that I like the somewhat warmer sound of nylon better. It still has that
characteristic cobza sound though, only smoother, if you will.
I'll try to make some time next week and record some tunes with this oudicized cobza!
I still have some cobza strings left though, and I'm thinking on putting those on my mandola. Maybe it will sound like a mini bouzouki then!
Check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkUOvsy2L6Y
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Komáromy
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 5-29-2007
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Mood: No Mood
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I am wondering what kind of strings to use for a Koboz/Cobza. I think the one I'm using currently has a guitar strings on it. I am going to try
changing it with Mandolin or Oud Strings. In pictures however it appears to have nylon strings. Does anyone have any suggestions?
Also, I have a question regarding Moldavian Csángo music. Perhaps you can help me Koya. I am looking for sheet music or the chords to Moldvai
songs.
Here is some stuff I have already found:
http://www.moldvai.extra.hu/kotta/moldvai_kottak2.pdf
Specifically I am looking for chords to the Kecskés, Kezes, Bulgaros/Bulgarjaszka, and Hojna, for a show I will be performing in late in June. Any
key would do as I would be able to convert it but I am working in C because of the furulya/flute. So far I have invented chords, based on the melody,
for the songs I don't have sheet music for.
Other songs that I am interested in learning are the Öves, Gergelytánc, Virágtánc, and Drumul Dracului (Ördög Útja), though any other music
would be great to learn as well. My ultimate goal is to be able to play at táncház-es.
So far I have mainly heard Moldavian music on the Cobza/Koboz. Does anyone know where I can find any other kinds?
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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hey Komáromy, I can help you with 2 of your questions.
The string thing is quite straightforward as there actually are Cobza strings available... I haven't found them online though, but maybe you could
order them through http://www.hora.ro. they're steel strings, very much like those of a bouzouki (lower two in octaves).
Having said that, I have recently put oud strings on my cobza and that works wonders, the sound changes to a certain extent ofcourse and you lose the
octave effect, but the characteristic cobza sound remains and I like the warmer touch to the sound.
About the music; check these out:
Trei Parale - Dorul meu
trei parale - romanian song
Trei Parale - lume, lume
Some nice cobza playing here from Florin Iordan.
Also check out Koya's examples in this thread!!
Best,
Andi
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Komáromy
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 5-29-2007
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Arsene, Thanks for your help!
If I am unable to get Cobza/Koboz strings in time, as I am in North America, would you think Mandolin strings would suffice? Oud strings should be
fairly easy for me to get as well.
That's some pretty good music posted in this thread.
I'm still on the search for written Moldva music though.
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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I'm not sure about the mandolin strings... I play the mandola myself, and those strings seem to be a tad too thick for cobza, I think there's a risk
of damaging the instrument since the actual cobza strings are of a lighter gauge.
Having said that, I know Jack Campin has put guitar strings on his cobza (of a 12-string guitar, see elsewhere in this thread). Apart from being hard
to keep in tune, he doesn't seem to have damaged the instrument; but there still may be a risk of the bridge popping out etc.
Or you could try oud strings. I actually have this now on my cobza, and have tuned it to B E a d, just like a turkish oud. (this was more or less
dictated by the strings, I didn't want to tighten them more.)
Bear in mind you will change the sound with oud strings, as these are nylon strings, and actual cobza strings are steel. You also lose the
bouzouki-like octave effect on the upper two courses.
I hope this helps. If all else fails, let me know - I may be able to send you a set of my cobza strings if you really need it in a hurry.
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clarkwelsh
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 5-29-2007
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cobza info
I studied cobza in Bucarest with the late master, Marin Cotoanta. Marin, along with Ion Serban and Grigore Kiazim ,were the greatest masters of the
instrument. They have all passed on, and there are few players left today.
I have seen a lot of info on cobza recently posted on this site, some is correct, and some is incorrect.
Cobza is not tuned like an oud, and does not use nylon strings, only metal!
The traditional tuning is low to high:
D (octaves), A (octaves), D (unison), and G (octaves or unison),.
The newer tuning is one step higher, EBEA, and works better for melody playing, however it is difficult to play in flat keys with the newer tuning.
Marin Cotoanta played in EBEA tuning.
In Moldavia they play with brass instruments a lot, so they use the traditional tuning. In Muntenia and Oltenia they play with violin and folk flutes
a lot, and flat keys are rarely used, so the EBEA tuning works well.
The traditional pick is made from a goose quill, which quickly wears out or cracks, so I use box sealing plastic banding, 1/4" wide, folded over and
tied with thread about 3/4" back from the fold.
I hope this clears up some of the misunderstandings of this instrument!
Clark Welsh
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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Clark, assuming you are talking about my posts about putting oud strings on a cobza, please take the time to read what i said. I am very well aware of
how a cobza should be stringed and tuned. I just did some experimenting!
On another note, I've been looking for Kiazim records for a while now... Do you have some? Any idea where to find them? I didn't even find them in
Romania...
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Koya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 132
Registered: 6-24-2005
Location: Hungary
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Mood: Happy
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Hey Folks,
Currently we are in large renovations on our flat and I am out of Internet.
I am very happy to new infos about our favorit topic.
I will back soon. I would like write more about our relationship with cobza and the present time Moldavian music style.
Dear Komáromi,
That is a very good book with Moldavian sheet music
Sándor Balogh:
Instrumental tunes from Moldavia/
Moldvai hangszeres dallamok
http://www.etnofon.hu/moldvai%20BSkonyv_ang.htm
with CD with examples
http://www.etnofon.hu/moldvai%20h%20dallamok_ang.htm
Bye: Koya
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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Hey Koya, glad to have you back! Do you know some Hungarian luthiers who make cobzas? Do they have websites? I'd like to have a signature cobza
someday
And now we're at it: Does anyone have some recordings with Grigore Kiazim? I've been looking for him!
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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What I'd also like to find is "Metoda de Cobza" by Ion Zlotea... Clark, maybe you could point me in the right direction? I went to several bookstores
in Bucharest but they didn't seem to even know the book!
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Komáromy
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 5-29-2007
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Thanks to you all for your help. Our show was great in part because of you. Now we are going on a road trip to Quebec, Canada to show Hungarian
culture and we will be teaching Molvai Csango dances to the children.
I have a friend who made a Koboz. It took him a year. He used our original Koboz and created a paper maché mould out of it. He filled it with fibre
glass and used wood for the face and neck. He is going to paint the fibreglass so that it looks like wood. It gives a louder sound but it is much the
same. I will try to get pictures of this modern Koboz.
Dear Koya, Thank you for the information about the book.   I will be ordering it soon.
Cheers,
András
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Koya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 132
Registered: 6-24-2005
Location: Hungary
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Mood: Happy
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Hi Komáromi, Hi Folks,
Do you speak Hungarian? I could help more easy and personally by an e-mail.
Now we are finishing the renovation works on our flat.
I am comming back soon. Let's talk about cobza!
It woud be very usefullf Romanian players would says also..
What is the TRUTH about cobza? This story similar to archeology. We have a little bit crumb...from the past.
I would like to write about some crumbs what we know...
Cheers,
Koya
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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Romanian delegation
Good to hear from you again, friend Koya. Hope all is well with your flat and hope to see you soon getting back to discussing our favourite
instrument!
By the way: I'm a Romanian cobza player... 
The way I see it, the cobza came along with the Turks, and could be a mixture of ud and saz (because it's basically a small ud with saz-like
strings!).
I believe the cobza - the way we know it today - originated in Romania and was extensively used in Romanian folk music until the guitar and the
cimbalom pushed the cobza away.
In the meantime, cobza spread to the Hungarian lands where it is still widely used to play folk music (which very much resembles classical medieval
music).
This is similar to the story of the taragot: a reed instrument which originated in Hungary, but is now more used in Romania. It´s like they've
exchanged instruments: you get to use the cobza, we get the taragot...
I think the major difference between Romanian and Hungarian playing is that in Romania it's more (but not only) used as a melody instrument (see for
example Ion Zlotea) and in Hungary it's used more as a rythm instrument, although not exclusively (see the myriad of examples our friend Koya gave us
in this thread!).
Then there´s also the Ukrainian Kobza (with a K) but that's actually more of a Domra (see HERE).
Check out the Ukranian Kobza HERE
A note on spelling:
I believe Koboz is Hungarian, Cobzã (with a c!) is Romanian and Kobza is Russian/Ukrainian (written as "kob3a")
In Romania we also have the word lãuta, which could also indicate a cobzã or an oud, or a lute. Hence we have two words for lute/cobza players;
"lãutar" (which literaly means luthier, but not in the sense of making instruments, rather playing them) and "cobzar".
Nowadays, a lãutar is basically anyone who plays a stringed instrument, so violonists, cimbalom players, sometimes even accordeon players could all
be called lãutari.
Cobzar on the other hand can only mean cobza player.
The name Cobzã/Koboz could or could not be related to Turkic instruments as Kobyz, Komuz, Kopuz, etc.
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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Koya, can you tell us some names of Hungarian cobza luthiers? and maybe their contact info?
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Jack_Campin
Oud Junkie
Posts: 333
Registered: 5-6-2007
Location: Scotland
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I got a Romanian friend to look for Zlotea's book on a trip back home a few months ago. He found that it's long out of print and nobody seems likely
to reprint it.
Maybe a candidate for PDF-ing like Jamil Bashir's book.
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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If there's anyone in this forum who has it.. I could easily translate it all to English!
Or maybe some other book?
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Koya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 132
Registered: 6-24-2005
Location: Hungary
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Mood: Happy
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Hi Folks,
There is some music from North Moldova, from Pirtesti, Suceava (Moldavia, Romania) recorded in 1977.
http://media.nacs.uci.edu/rgarfias/mp3/romania/suceava-77-107-15.mp...
http://media.nacs.uci.edu/rgarfias/mp3/romania/suceava-77-107-14.mp...
I like it. I think very nice pieces. This is a collection of Robert Garfias.
http://itc.uci.edu/%7Ergarfias/kiosk/sound-film.html
Cheers: Koya
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Koya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 132
Registered: 6-24-2005
Location: Hungary
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Mood: Happy
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HI Folks,
There is some amazing music from Moldavian region from Csángó music and dance camp from Somoska. The next folk music and dance camp will be in this
August.
http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...
http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...
http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...
http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...
http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...
http://medvegyu.organic.hu/2005_08_11_14_Moldva/koncert_08_11_Somos...
This part of this selection is some examples with some melodies and dances that the Csangos
(Moldavian Hungarians) play, too.
Bye: Koya
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arsene
Oud Junkie
Posts: 366
Registered: 5-19-2007
Location: Rotterdam, NL
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| Quote: | Originally posted by arsene
Koya, can you tell us some names of Hungarian cobza luthiers? and maybe their contact info? |
Dito.
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Koya
Oud Junkie
Posts: 132
Registered: 6-24-2005
Location: Hungary
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Mood: Happy
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Hey Arsene,
I don't want give you bad advice...I don't know who is the best luthier in Hungary because I didn't use too many different instruments.
One of my cobzas was made by Vrábel Jánoos. He has a website.
http://hangszerek.uw.hu/
I know a lutemaker who made cobzas, He made one of a Bolya Matyi's cobzas, but he hasn't got website.
I don't have his contact, but I will ask for you from Bolya Matyi.
These cobzas look like a lute.
And finally I heard about a guy who makes very good cobzas in Transylvania. He is Ferenc Tamás.
I will look for his contact later.
Koya
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spyros mesogeia
Oud Junkie
Posts: 896
Registered: 9-10-2003
Location: WASHINGTON DC
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Mood: play my ouds
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Hello Koya
If I will be lucky,a friend of mine has found for me a kobza on a small village,a very old one,
I will have it in a few weeks hopfully.
Best Regards
Spyros
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