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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Mood: No Mood
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Habbebkum,
First of all, check out http://www.mimf.com. Just tons of info there. A bit specific to oud, but a huge of amount of general useful info.
Your question could generate a huge answer with a giant list of tools. Instead of telling you what tools to buy, you should get a good basic
woodworking book and get a good idea of how certain things are done before you even cut wood. (You didn't say how much woodworking you've done)
Taunton press and finewoodworking.com are good sources. Instrument making (especially ouds) is really just another type of woodworking, and the joints
and techniques are the same, but refined and slightly specialized. There are plenty of lists out there of a basic hand toolkit, and this is what you
should start with. In oud making, power tools are good for roughing out peices of wood, and you can get by with a decent 12" bandsaw, and a hand
drill. But your first "tool" purchase by far should be Richard Hankey's book. Don't start without it. Good luck, and please share your progress with
us. I'm still waiting for someone to post their project.
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habeebkum
Oud Maniac
Posts: 99
Registered: 2-20-2005
Location: newcastle, uk
Member Is Offline
Mood: arab!
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hi jameel. first of all thank you for your advice. i have checked out richards book and i will purchase it next week cos i am moving house tomorrow
and have alot to do. but i will definately get it. and i will also check out the websites that u suggested. as for my woodwork....well....all i've
ever made is simple things like tables i enjoy making things tho and i am
planning on taking myself thru a slow but consistent plan and hopefully(sometime before the end of 2006) i should be on my way to making my first oud.
i just think if i take it up as a hobby and carry on doing that for the rest of my life, it will give me alot of satisfaction and fun. so i hope that
you and Dr. Oud (richard) might help me achieve this. thanks again
habeebkum
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john (beloved) habib
Oud Junkie
Posts: 104
Registered: 2-5-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: love my new oud
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WOWOWOWOW
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
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| Quote: | Originally posted by habeebkum
to all the oudmakers out there, is it possible to ask for a basic list of tools needed to either repair or even to make a complete oud? and a rough
price for them? |
I have seen a master maker working with very few tools. You can have your wood supplier or a local wood shop cut all your material to rough size,
(allow +1/16 inch each surface and edge for fitting and surface finishing). You only neet a long and short plane, a few chisels (1/4in, 1/2in, maybe
1in)., A drill motor and peg reamer, a tape or yard stick for measurements, some single edge razor blades for scraping, sandpaper, sanding blocks made
from scrap wood, and as many clamps as you can afford. Clamps can actually be made, from hardwood and machine screws. You'll find out what you need as you go, so get started already!
Another great source of building info is Frank Ford's Items for Luthier's pages. You also might try the The Guild of American Luthiers for a wealth of building information published in their newsletters.
Other useful links: Assistance for Novice Lute Makers , Using Hide Glue, Finishing Your Instrument With Tru Gun Oil , LMI Pegs.
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Dr. Oud
| Quote: | Originally posted by habeebkum
to all the oudmakers out there, is it possible to ask for a basic list of tools needed to either repair or even to make a complete oud? and a rough
price for them? |
I have seen a master maker working with very few tools. You can have your wood supplier or a local wood shop cut all your material to rough size,
(allow +1/16 inch each surface and edge for fitting and surface finishing). You only neet a long and short plane, a few chisels (1/4in, 1/2in, maybe
1in)., A drill motor and peg reamer, a tape or yard stick for measurements, some single edge razor blades for scraping, sandpaper, sanding blocks made
from scrap wood, and as many clamps as you can afford. Clamps can actually be made, from hardwood and machine screws. You'll find out what you need as you go, so get started already!
Another great source of building info is Frank Ford's Items for Luthier's pages. You also might try the The Guild of American Luthiers for a wealth of building information published in their newsletters.
Other useful links: Assistance for Novice Lute Makers , Using Hide Glue, Finishing Your Instrument With Tru Gun Oil , LMI Pegs. |
As for prices, avoid cheap tools from Chinese or American steel, they're not worth the money you think you're saving. Japanese and European steel
tools are a bargain at twice the price. You can actually find good tools at many antique stores. Pre-WWII American tool steel is better than any made
today, and often less than new tools of lower quality.
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Next Part---Pegbox
I scraped the inside of the bowl and glued paper strips to the joints. Nothing too interesting here to photograph....
So on to the next part: the pegbox.
I make the pegbox before the neck, because it's better to shape the neck to fit the pegbox than vice-versa.
I'm making this pegbox according to master luthier Dincer Dalkilic's design, many thanks to him for providing me with it.
What makes it unique is the placement of the pegs. They aren't simply placed along the center line of the peg box walls. The holes are placed in a
specific pattern which does not allow any of the strings to lay on top the underlying strings. It's a clever design, and I look forward to seeing how
it works.
I attached a pic here of my pegbox drawing, and a PDF for ouds makers who may want a better copy.
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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The PDF
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Jay
Oud Lover
Posts: 23
Registered: 5-22-2005
Location: Clemson, SC USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin' Good
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Hi Jameel, Dr. Oud, and other members! I'll begin constructing my first oud soon, and I just wanted to drop a line and say that your websites and your
posts in this forum have really educated and inspired me. I think it's great that you're sharing your knowledge here for everyone else's benefit- the
internet is such a wonderful thing! And don't forget all the work Mike puts into this site to make it all happen!
To reciprocate I'm planning on posting my oud-making progress here for you to see. I'm not sure what to expect with the project.. I'm a beginner
woodworker and am sure instrument-making is beyond my current skills, but I like to aim high. I just hope I'll have the patience to make this all
worthwhile.
I won't start on the oud until I finish my current woodworking project- hopefully in a couple of weeks. Until then here's a picture of the raw
materials I've gathered so far:
The long board laying across the back of the bench is African Mahogany which I'll use for the ribs and neck; it's a relatively inexpensive wood and
fits the budget for my first project. Also, this way I can afford extra material in case I need to redo something along the way.
On top of the mahogany are my block plane, scraper set, and handsaws. The sheet laying across it is some mahogany crotch veneer which I hope will be
suitable for the pick guard.
Stacked underneath the veneer on the front side are the two halves of the soundboard, made of Western Red Cedar (I spent half my budget on this,
following Dr. Oud's heuristics).
The ends of the rosewood purfling strips overlap a little on the cedar, and underneath them are billets to cut the braces out of (also Western Red
Cedar).
Underneath the saws are the ebony bridge and fingerboard blanks- I hope to resaw the fingerboard blank and use part of it as the neck stiffener.
There's also a little peice of bone for the nut.
Then there are a few of my chisels, and most importatly Richard Hankey's book!
I'm still lacking a few items, in particular something making for the rosettes.. I'd like to try making it from horn, though I don't know if I'll be
able to work with it. Fortunately I'm at the state agricultural college and there's plenty of farms nearby- I hope I can find some cow horns for cheap
and experiment with them. With the exception of the African mahogany and the veneer, the woods were purchased by mail from Allied Lutherie.
Once again, I want to say that you guys have been a big help in educating me and motivating me to make this happen. Hope you'll look at my future
posts and perhaps give me the advice I know I'll need 
Jay
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Jay,
Welcome to the forums!
I'm very happy that you'll be sharing your oud project with us! I can't wait to see your new thread. Keep us posted, and good luck with the
project!
Jameel
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Jay
Oud Lover
Posts: 23
Registered: 5-22-2005
Location: Clemson, SC USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin' Good
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Thanks, Jameel- the thread should be started soon; I'm really looking forward to this!
Jay
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1370
Registered: 12-18-2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: better than before
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Way to go Jay! You've got a great start with your set up. the bench is going to be your best friend. I only have one suggestion, and that's to use a
lighter wood for the bridge. Ouds bridges should be light weight, and the black ones you've seen were probably painted black, rather than ebony.
Walnut or maple are good common medium hardwoods that are light enough for the bridge. It looks like you're stating a collection of scrapwood for
pads and fixtures. I've got 3 or 4 boxes of scrap and I often use pieces that saner people would throw out. Welcome to the oud builder's asylum!
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Jay
Oud Lover
Posts: 23
Registered: 5-22-2005
Location: Clemson, SC USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin' Good
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It's really great to get advice directly from the experts
I've started my own thread now 'cause I know I'll be embarrassed to put pictures of my work next to the craftmanship of Jameel 
It's here: Building my first oud
Jay
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Making the Pegbox
The first time I made a pegbox I didn't drill the holes for the pegs until the pegbox was assembled. This caused some blowout on the inside of wall.
So this time I cut a thick piece of wood the shape of the pegbox, sanded it smooth, and drilled the holes before I even cut the pegbox walls. This way
the pieces match perfectly and the holes will be lined up spot on. It was also quicker to do it this way, since I did all the operations to both sides
simultaneously. I even ended up with an extra side in case I botch one.
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
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thanks for that jameel I needed to know how to build a peg box without doing double the work it needs...
Verry glad your sharing your work Jameel
Samir
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Jay
Oud Lover
Posts: 23
Registered: 5-22-2005
Location: Clemson, SC USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin' Good
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Wow Jameel that's a really effective and efficient solution. You are truly the man. Also, I like Dincer's design to keep the strings clear of the
other pegs. That's cool.
Keep it up!
Jay
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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That's really great Jameel! Nice work man, as usual.
I just wanted to make a note that to get the most out of using this arrangement of the pegs, you should string the oud a little differently than
usual. In effect, the two bass courses don't change their positions in the pegbox, but the other four courses do.
Here is a little pic of how Dincer/Cinucen came up with the most effective string-to-peg set-up with this peg arrangement (I used general numbers for
courses and alpha or beta for string order within a course since we all use different tunings):
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
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I cant make sense of this Mav Iam sorry about this..
I get confused at the number 3 string. It seems like 6 5 and 4 follow the order. And when I look at the number 3 string the string go past the pegs
numbered 3.
Maybe its just me but Its probably just a typo.
Cheers
Samir
OR.. the strings here arent placed in Dincer's way. Maybe thats the case?
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Mood: No Mood
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I'll post a drawing soon of Dalkilic/Tanrikorur's stringing. It's basically the same as Mav's pic, but it shows the strings too.
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
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Mood: big band envy
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Hi Samir,
Sorry bro, this is just a general pic of a pegbox, ignore the actual strings here. Just follow the labeling next to the pegs. Maybe these diagrams
can be a little better for you.
Here the 4th (A) is where normally your 3rd (D) would be. Your 3rd (D) is now where your 2nd (G) would be. The 2nd (G) is where the 1st (C) would
be, and the 1st (C) is where the 4th (A) would be.
Here is a pic for Arabic tuning:
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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Here is one for Turkish tuning:
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samzayed
Oud Junkie
Posts: 485
Registered: 11-1-2003
Location: Chicago, IL
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mashee el hal
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Mav and Jameel, this is really interesting to me, I have a couple questions:
(1) Is alpha below beta, just as 1 is below 2? (if you are holding the oud in playing position and looking down)
(2) Is this stringing technique helpful for a standard pegbox, or only for those made from this special design?
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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| Quote: | Originally posted by samzayed
Mav and Jameel, this is really interesting to me, I have a couple questions:
(1) Is alpha below beta, just as 1 is below 2? (if you are holding the oud in playing position and looking down)
(2) Is this stringing technique helpful for a standard pegbox, or only for those made from this special design? |
I guess I won't post that drawing--Mav's illustration does the job.
Sam,
Yes, alpha below Beta, the peg closer to the nut tunes the lower string. This is useful for a standard pegbox too. I've seen Simon Shaheen (who was
also a friend of Tanrikorur) use this stringing pattern, except the C and G courses (arabic tuning) are reversed (the C is in the more typical
place--first two pegs on the right). Although I tend to agree that Dalkilic's pattern is better. Here's why: since the high C course is farthest to
the right on the fingerboard, stringing to the first set of pegs (right sight of pegbox) can cause more extreme angles on the string, whereas using
the next set of pegs allows the strings to enter the pegbox more gently. This is especially important since the C course is the thinnest and more
prone to stress. My thoughts....
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SamirCanada
Moderator
Posts: 3405
Registered: 6-4-2004
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thanks Mav I just wasnt shure.
Turns out I was thinking of a way to string the oud differently. This is almost the same way has I have mine.
Do you guys also find that you get better results when the string winds towards the thicker side of the peg? I mean the more you turn the peg the more
string material goes up towards the side of the peg box where the peg is thikest. I find that when I do that my strings hold nicely. If on the other
end the string is winded towards the thinest peg side then It can make the pegs slip. Also if you have too much string material and it touches the
side of the box then you can puch the peg down and it becomes loose that way. I guess if your pegs are perfectly reemed and tight then you dont have
that problem. Only people with cheaper ouds(like me!) may use that technique to get better functioning pegs.
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
Registered: 12-5-2002
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Mood: No Mood
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Pegbox.........
I did a little inlay on the back of the pegbox. I was contemplating how to cut the mortise on a concave surface, and I came up blank, so I decided to
cut the mortise before I bent the piece to shape. I then glued the piece to the back of the pegbox walls, trimmed it flush and glued in my
inlays. Next step is to fit some pegs. At this pace, I'll have this oud done in maybe another year! Ugh!
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
Member Is Offline
Mood: big band envy
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Wow,
Beautiful, beautiful work and imagination. It seems to me not only are you making a very beautiful work of art, you're also moving at a very decent
pace too.
Thanks for sharing again!
mav
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