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gilgamesh
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Bravo Jameel! And thank you... I saw earlier that there is a clone , I take remaining one  
One question: Is it authorized to put the NaHat logo little bird on a NaHat style oud and not authentic Nahat? I guess so, if you do it, but how is
this possible?
Good continuation, oud Wizard
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Jameel
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Melbourne
Is it me - or is the central soundhole enormous? It looks fantastic and it really dominates the entire sound board.
Mike is going to be one lucky guy owning this oud! |
It does look larger because of the tiles offset from the hole edge along with the large diameter ring connecting the large square-weave inlays. Here
is a pic overlaid against my #2, which has the same size holes.
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Jameel
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| Quote: | Originally posted by gilgamesh
Bravo Jameel! And thank you... I saw earlier that there is a clone , I take remaining one
One question: Is it authorized to put the NaHat logo little bird on a NaHat style oud and not authentic Nahat? I guess so, if you do it, but how is
this possible?
Good continuation, oud Wizard
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Not like there are any Nahats around to gripe about someone copying their designs. As a matter of fact, if Abdo (or Hunna, Toufiq etc) was around to
chew me out, I would welcome it, and any other tips he could give me!
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Jonathan
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How do you know that that bird is just a Nahat pattern, or that it originated from them? I can show you pictures of other early ouds with the same
bird, and the same scrolling vine. A year or so ago, I posted a thread on here somewhere asking where the design originated, and nobody seemed to
know. My gut feeling is that this image of a dove surrounded by a vine may have its origin in religious art. I wouldn't consider it as belonging to
the Nahats, although they used it masterfully, and perhaps we associate it most with them.
Beautiful, Jameel, as always.
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Jameel
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What Jonathan said....
Thanks bud!
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Brian Prunka
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Not sure if this is correct or not, but I was told that the Nahats mostly didn't cut their own rosettes, but had them cut by someone who specialized
in it (and who also made them for other oud makers).
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charlie oud
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"Read all about it, read all about it !!!!!!!, Alien employed to secure oud bracing". Great project Mike, Im wetting myself with excitement waiting
for my Gawharet el fan oud, my first oud ( the one I use is a borrowed turkish "tourist model" sounds like a ukelele with bronchitis) should be here
at the end of the month, so im wondering how you are coping at night, take care buddy shes on her way, a true beauty, may she sing as she looks. No
more than you deserve for your service to oud-dom. Cheers mate.
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Sidi
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Brian Prunka
Not sure if this is correct or not, but I was told that the Nahats mostly didn't cut their own rosettes, but had them cut by someone who specialized
in it (and who also made them for other oud makers). |
I think this is probably true Brian. Nazih Ghadban seems to own an instrument (below) by Toufik Kadamani who according to Mr.Ghadban "made the
ornaments and Mozaik to Nahats"
As you can see, the quality of this maker's work here is identical to that of the very best Nahats.
You can catch a sound file and more pictures of this oud here:
http://www.oudnazihghadban.com/users/special.asp
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zalzal
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After a quick search on google i learn that:
The design of bird eating grape comes probably fm coptic stelae art, itself coming fm antic egyptian funerari art.
And having evolved with influences fm roman, greek, byzantine, persian, islamic etc arts.
For ex in coptic art: pairs of animals amid vegetation and eating can be interpreted allegorically as feeding on the fruits of the tree of life,
partaking the celestial food. The tree of life itself was comparable in meaning to a cross.
On islamic art the Bird and flower designs combine the Islamic belief in paradise as a garden with the metaphor of the lover (the bird) and the
beloved (the flower) of Persian poetry.
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gilgamesh
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Hello Zalzoula
As far as I can remember of old Eastern iconography lessons, you're right.
Birds symbolize the spiritual state, the superior states of being. Their flight makes them to serve as symbols to the relationship between heaven and
hearth.Birds are -especially in Islam- the symbols of the angels; The birds language mentioned in the Koran is the angels langage, spiritual
knowledge;
The Birds such as those of the Avicenna "the bird stories" or those of Fari-od-Din Attâr, feed themself from the tree of knowledge as souls engaged
in the initiatory quest. I cannot imagine better animal on a oud !Personally I like a lot ducks! ciao
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Melbourne
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I will agree with Johnathan on the theory that the bird and vine patterns have thier origin in religious arts. As many would know, the Nahats were
Christians, as were and still are, many oud makers thorughout the Arab world. The bird and vine pattern is a theme that can be found on many many
carved wooden Iconostasis screens in eastern churches, and this is a Byzantine tradition going back many centuries.
And Jameel, as to the size of the central shams, I think the other thing that tricks the eye is the amount of detail in the shams. I compared the
shams of oud 2 and oud 4, and the 4 seems to have a lot more going on, especially towards the centre. Do you ever entertain the idea of doing an
entire raqma in Arabic calligraphy? that would just be the icing on the cake
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Ronny Andersson
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Great oud Jameel with well balanced decorations and geometry, I find the bird pattern fascinating since my own early 20th Turkish century oud has an
exactly identical pattern as on the Kadamani oud! Is that pure coincidence?
Best wishes
Ronny
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Jonathan
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I swear I didn't mean to sidetrack this thread. But, just to drive the point home, the design is clearly present here in an Armenian mosaic located
in Jerusalem from the 5th century. Take a look at the lower right. I wonder if this mosaic is the source for the design.
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Jonathan
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My apologies, Jameel. But here is yet another non-Nahat example. An oud by Artin Atikyan, 1920s, Istanbul. I would desperately love to know who did
this work--it seems almost identical to Sidi's.
I'm happy to delete the post, though, because I don't want to detour this incredible post of Jameel's.
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Jameel
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It's not my post anyway, Jonathan. Mike started it, so you'll have to deal with his wrath and fury!
These designs are all gorgeous. But I know where they all originated. I have a grape vine on my back patio, and enjoy watching the birds flit around
in the summertime. Different religions may place certain symbolic meaning to scenes from nature, but I think these designs are used because they echo
real-life images that are pleasing, and especially in the case of birds, musical. The bird-and-vine motif is found all around the world. Here is
another example.
Melbourne,
Yes, this rosette is more detailed, the calligraphy in the center smaller. I might do a maqamat rosette someday. Honestly though, I think
aesthetically the floral/geometric ones are much prettier. Although the maqamat shams, especially the "Hamza El Din" Abdo example is the pinnacle of
craftsmanship.
Thanks Ronny for chiming in!
A funny story about this subject. When I did my first neck inlay with the swans (my #2), I was pretty stoked about how it turned out. I was showing
everybody the results and telling them about the original "delicate swan and vine" design from the Nahat workshops. I was proud to have a row of swans
cruising down the fingerboard! My pride was cut short however when my 8-year old nephew saw the oud for the first time, looked at the fingerboard and
said "what's with the ducks?"
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JT
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You're a special man Jameel, Keep up the great work!
Congrats Mr Mike, looks like its gonna be a monster...Cant wait to hear it!
All the best,
JT 
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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Thanks JT! That means a lot coming from a pro like you!
By the way, when are you coming to America? We're waiting....
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JT
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Hey Jameel,
Be wanting to for a few years now, but the time hasnt been right. I have been approached to do a program with a orchestra in US so I hope this bears
fruit. Will keep you in the loop. In the mean time, that looks like an amazing instrument and Im sure we all appreciate what you given our oud
community.
All the best,
JT
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Oud Freak
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Sidi
I think this is probably true Brian. Nazih Ghadban seems to own an instrument (below) by Toufik Kadamani who according to Mr.Ghadban "made the
ornaments and Mozaik to Nahats"
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As for the birds and flowers of Kadamani 1943 oud, Mr. Ghadban says that even laser cannot do such perfect cuts.
Concerning the rosettes, nothing proves that the Nahat used to do them themselves or not, the fact is that Syria was and still is particularly rich in
talented craftsmen, so nothing is surprising. What I find specially attractive in the Nahat ouds are the rosettes
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | Originally posted by JT
Hey Jameel,
Be wanting to for a few years now, but the time hasnt been right. I have been approached to do a program with a orchestra in US so I hope this bears
fruit. Will keep you in the loop. In the mean time, that looks like an amazing instrument and Im sure we all appreciate what you given our oud
community.
All the best,
JT |
Hope something develops. Thanks Joe.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
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I hate you all. Especially you JV! 
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Mike
I hate you all. |
So I can keep this one then?
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
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Location: California, USA
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I'll take it off your hands, Jameel. No problem. No need to crowd your workspace, I'll just hold on to it for a while.
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Mike
Super Administrator
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Not so fast party people. Okay, I love everybody again!
Label is in and face is on. Check it out!!!
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SamirCanada
Moderator
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Ya Salam!!!
its getting there buddy.
fantastic job on the face Jameel.
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