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diane
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Advice on oud buying...in the UK :-)
Hi, Postsed this below and had helpful responses but was advised to repost this with reference to the UK in the title, possibilities being so
different dependant on location. Sorry for any repetition :-)
Kind regards, Diane
Advice on oud buying
Hello all,
I am hoping to begin my journey with the oud soon. I hope later I will be able to make a trip to Palestine for a week or so, in the mean time I will
have to begin closer to home, Wales.
So,...obtaining an oud to work with. I've seen one advertised for £80 - which was less than I expected. I will be a beginner so cannot justify
magnificient oud. Though also I do not want to cause myself difficulties through purshasing a poorly made instrument.
I am hoping for advice. How do I know if it is a good oud at a good price? What are the danger/worry things to look for? I have a musical background
so with a group of ouds I'm sure I can pick one I prefer, however this will not be the case...just the one oud...
Yes, it would seem wise to take an oud player with me, but those I know of are on far distant shores.
What questions should I be asking? What should I be checking for?
All inputs greatly appreciated,
With kind regards, Diane
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Aymara
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... which can be found HERE.
But maybe our UK oud friends might help Diane even more ... where did YOU buy your ouds ... any tips for Diane from Wales?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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zakiya_alali
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Hi,
Well what kind of oud do u have in mind? I have one sukar oud and an iraqi oud. Am based in london. Let me know if you are intersted
Cheers
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diane
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I hope to have a chance to catch up with the mails later tonight. In the meantime, thank you Chris for adding the link :-) I'm quite new to a lot of
this.
I'm not sure I know the difference between a sukar and iraq oud. It's certainly Palestinian artists who have caught my attention and Arabic ouds I'm
interested in. I'm still learning the words to explain myself, but am getting there, if you can bear with me :-)
Kind regards, Diane
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alfaraby
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Palestinian oud players play Palestinian ouds or ancient Syrian ouds. For example :
Simon Shaheen plays Abdo Nahat's (Damascus)
Taiseer Elias plays Amin Haddad's (Haifa)
Kamil Shajrawi plays Kamil Mowais (Nazareth)
Jubran Trio play's Hatem Jubran's (Nazareth)
Nizar Rohana plays Abdo Nahat & Derpetrossian's (Damascus) & Kamil Mowais's
Adel Salameh plays Abdo Nahat's ......
& I ( ) play Michel Khawam 1929 & 1960 (Aleppo) & Kamil Mowais 1991
& Georgy Hayek 1923 (Aleppo) >
lol
Non of the Palestinian players play an Iraqi oud, nor a Sukkar !!
So get yourself one of these mentioned above, but be willing to pay a lot & I mean a lot
If you want an Egyptian oud, here's Michael Moussa's (UK) site . He's got fixed prices : 1000 $ an oud, no matter which . He's in Darton, Barnsley ,
South Yorkshire !
http://www.magicstrings.co.uk/index.htm
yours indeed
Alfaraby
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Aymara
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... Trio Joubran play Joubran ouds. If I remember that correctly, they learned the oud luthery from their father.
| Quote: | | Non of the Palestinian players play an Iraqi oud, nor a Sukkar !! |
Are there any famous professional players regardless of their origin using Sukar ouds ... does he build grand concert ouds, these players usually use?
On the other hand I see many professional players using "historic" ouds like Nahat for example.
| Quote: | | So get yourself one of these mentioned above, but be willing to pay a lot & I mean a lot |
I don't think, that it has to be a Palestinean oud. For a beginner every reasonable oud will do a good job, don't you think so? And hey ... once she's
infected with the oud virus, she definitely will play every day ... as I do too 
| Quote: | | If you want an Egyptian oud, here's Michael Moussa's (UK) ... |
If she can afford it and is shure, she won't give up learning oud, Michael is the man I myself would contact, if I would live in the UK, because first
he has a good reputation, and second if Diane will ever encounter a problem, where a luthier is needed, he's the man "nearby".
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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diane
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Okay, I still haven't finished reading some of the notes on the thread, but.. Yes, a Joubran oud would be fanastic.. I could neither afford it nor
justify its usage as a beginner. Nor justify diverting funds that would otherwise be spent on my children! To answer another question, from before, I
play violin, so have some understanding of tone as much as that is transferable across.
It's a good question can I justify and afford an oud from Michael? - it's more than I would have thought I should be entering into/considering...as
such a beginner. I'm not looking for an ornate instrument, but one with good tone, I think three openings. I hope to travel to Manchester one Sunday
to meet up with the guys there to have my first chance of playing an oud..! I hope also that this journey will help inform me more. Sometimes you can
love the sound of an instrument but it suprise you as not feeling 'your instrument' in your hands such as for me ulieann pipes and pibgorn, which I
had a chance to play in passing at sessions just for curiousity. I expect I will enjoy the oud very much however for a range of musical reasons but we
will see.
Anyhow, I digress! - largely as I need to dash off. I have asked the advice also of my favourite oud player - as to what they would recommend me begin
on. They have a wonderful blend of solemnity of beauty and warmth of vibrancy in their playing, but this for sure is a question of their outstanding
talent and various influences to date musically and in spirit.
An expensive instrument doesn't take the place of practice/relationship, though a poor one can frustrate this process I understand.
Thank you for all and any future advice.
I will go back later and finish reading the later messages on the other thread.
My warmest regards and appreciation, Diane
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Aymara
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Quote: Originally posted by diane  | | I hope to travel to Manchester one Sunday to meet up with the guys there to have my first chance of playing an oud..! |
I bet, this will help you a lot and besides it will be a lot of fun!
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
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Diane,
The oud TYPE is a simple issue, though of course there are hybrids, and "modernizations". Few luthiers are 100% of one mindset on every oud they make.
Hopefully I'm not insulting you by explaining basics you might know, but basically there ARE two types:
Arabian ouds are big, often decorated but a bit crude, with a long scale (> 600 mm) and are usually tuned C FF AA
dd gg cc (big letters indicate the wound strings and notice the single retunable bass string).
Turkish ouds are smaller, with sharper timbre, spartan but more finely finished, with shorter scale (< 580 mm) and
tuned one whole step higher, so the same strings usually can work.
Egyptian ouds are hard core Arabians, often played old-fashioned with only 5 courses, the bottom course unstrung, but usually made with enough pegs
and holes for 6 courses. Palestinians I dunno what is in vogue, but old Syrians and Egyptians are fundamental. Iraqi ouds include the not-glued
"floating" bridge (using a tailpiece and offering a brighter timbre) and the 7 course oud (either adding ff on top or a second tunable bass drone
course). You likely don't want either of those. Syrians include Sukars, Halabbis and many makers' instruments. Syrian ouds are often based on
traditional Arabian patterns, like historical Nahats.
The professional Grand Concert ouds might use elements from this or that region, but they are often custom made, or a particular luthier's dream ouds.
Ibrahim Sukar is an engineer in Aleppo and his ouds offer great value and smart design, e.g. even output, predictable timbre. He also uses an
adjustable neck, that only 3 makers have ever offered. Seems like a small thing ....
Ali Tutan says something worth pondering:
"Those who would like to buy an ‘ud’ should be aware that the distance of the strings from the soundboard should not
be more than 3 mm’s at the point where the neck is connected to the body (the ‘tiz nevâ’ point). It is both difficult and expensive to fix the
types of ouds where this distance is about 4-5 mm." You would be amazed at how many ouds fall into that group, either now or later.
The plane of the oud's fingerboard should angle slightly away from the soundboard so that at the nut it's about 4 mm BACK from the soundboard.
Much of the playability and timbral character of the Arabian oud is determined by the action. Personally I can't fathom buying the most stylistically
appropriate and exquisitely made "Grand Concert oud " and ponder how major a neck job it might need in a few years (or next week, if you're buying
remotely).
The secret is that to someone who's buying a $3500 oud, a $550 neck job might not be a problem. Or if you're a walking guru of the oud circuit, you
won't pay European labor rates on such a repair anyway. By focusing on "Palestinian masters" it looks you've got people thinking for you in terms of
masters' "grand concert" ouds, not Stradivarius quite, but sort of Guarnerius territory. . Either that or making a joke of
it. You'd better clarify what your budget is. I don't know if you're in a position to pay these "professional Palestinian rates".
If on the other hand you're looking for a Volvo class instrument, Sukars, with their consistency and that adjustable neck, are wonderful, in a
reasonable range of models and prices, say $400 - 950, and they are probably the only oud that you can safely purchase sight unseen.
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Ararat66
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Hi Diane
I sent you a U2U. btw who's your favourite oud player and how have you come to know the oud - are you from the East?
I used to live in Wales, Cardiff for 3 years then West Wales for a year, wet winters beautiful summers
Leon
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Kelly
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Hi Diane
You are welcome to come upto Manchester anytime for a Sunday meeting.just contact via U2U for email and travel details etc. There are usually a good
selection of arabic ouds mostly of Michael Moussa variety as well as a few others.
BTW Hobgoblin music used to have a few either second hand or new (Turkish) ouds of reasonable quality try their website or contact the shops direct.
Kelly
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diane
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Leon, My fav oud player has to be the young Hosam Eliwat. My 5 year old son is also a big fan :-) Though there are of course many amazing players. We
have been lucky enough to have the Joubran brothers here in Aberystwyth. The oud? I'm not sure when I first became aware of it. I grew up second gen.
Welsh in a quite private market town in England, with a lot of 'hiraeth' in the family, so a lot of my friends have come from other communities
(people away from home thang) - esp as live in cities as an adult. Music was a big thing in our household and I've loved music with quarter tones (as
well as welsh folk with its modal uniqueness) and a lot of Eastern European music since I was tiny - I remember my mum remarking on it.
My father was from Cardiff originally, though a long time ago - he was 68 when I was born! And it's too big a city for me (esp now its grown so much)
and very 'British' feeling as an outsider, rather than 'European'. I'm not much of a city lass, though I do make exceptions!
What took you to Cardiff and West Wales? And where in West Wales, may I ask? I imagine study from the time lengths and maybe Aberystwyth?!
And Portsmouth? I took my degree there - some time ago now! Left for my Masters in Colchester.
Nice to make your aquaintance :-)
And Kelly, thank you. I've sent you a U2U ...hopefully! :-) See you very soon I hope :-)
Warmest wishes,
Diane
PS Budget, no I cannot afford a Palestinian masterpiece, much as that would be lovely! And I would not be deserving of it either as I cannot yet play!
We will see what will be in time.
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diane
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Oh and FernandRaynaud. Yes it is an Arabic oud that I'm wanting. I love the bass notes too much. :-) We have, as with many cultures, instruments with
drones, also in our music on the fiddle, because our original crwths had this naturally. Maybe it reminds me of this. Maybe it is entirey separate
just beautiful. I have loved much music I have heard on Turkish ouds but for me I especially like this deeper bass recalling.
I have to dash, sorry.
Warm regards, Diane
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Aymara
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But you can play piano and violin, so I expect, that you'll learn oud fast.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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diane
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With this build up I begin to feel I can only disappoint! ;-)
Seriously, thank you for all your encouragement.
Just been talking about Welsh folk modes and history with a Romanian friend and it reminded me to note that we have a great debt to the gypsies in
Wales that our music and indeed the Welsh harp survived through times of religious repression. They also introduce us to the fiddle. I suspect there
has been an influence in our music also...which already loves minor scales! We, in my family, also have an small ancestral link to the South East
Mediterranean, but I suspect the former influence is the link to other musical avenues and a long with an interest in other traditions, as I'm not
convinced that musical taste can travel down generations without exposure! :-)
..Random thoughts :-) Warm wishes.
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diane
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btw Not mean to be a link between music of gypsies and the oud, tangental thoughts stemming from where am I from and my tastes in music. I'm not
always very linear, but hey! :-)
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Aymara
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... is not that strange as it seems. Do a little research about "Al Andalus" and the origins of Flamenco 
| Quote: | | I'm not always very linear, but hey! :-) |
Which I consider an advantage
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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diane
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Leon, I'll try to post some links, its not my favourite piece by him, but still exceptionally beautiful I think.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DcxvegE1T4
Don't know best way of posting links, but hopefully!! Can't find a link to his recent 'Taqasim' on you tube, only on facebook/myspace. Playing here
now (not that that helps anyone else!..my tech know-how could be better :-)
See you.
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diane
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Yaye! :-) I stand corrected, there's loads on You Tube!
And...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g09tQOfN6ao
I'm getting there! :-)
Night night.
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fernandraynaud
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Diane,
That Hosam Eliwat piece is beautiful, but it uses a lot of electronic enhancements, specifically major EQ, delay, reverb and a touch of chorus. Plus
even the "solo" beginning part is not one oud, it's multiple tracks. I'm not even sure the bass notes are played on oud, it's a very layered sound.
I'm all for it, unlike some of the traditionalists, but the point is that any decent oud can be made to sound like that with studio gear/software, and
conversely nobody can play that like that on a single oud, no matter what.
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diane
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Ah ha. Then that would be the difference between previous clips we'd seen of him, which to be fair were very impressive at the time, but which were
him playing live on a sofa in a bar to the Joubran brothers. I understand :-)
Still our fav oud player of the moment from the previous clips though :-)
But the bass notes not played on an oud!!! :-( Oh, that IS a shame! :-) Not that I ever had any hopes of playing to such a high standard. But I do
love those bass notes :-)
Anyhow, I'm off...again! :-) Good night all.
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alfaraby
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Excuse me, but this oud is in a very severe condition, it's not tuned properly and the player ... Oh Dear, God forgive me for I've sinned ...is even
worse !!
This type of oud is sold everywhere in Egypt for a dime or two
Excuse me, excuse me, excu.. exc.. ex.. e.. ...
Alfaraby
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diane
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Well, I'm sorry I disagree, Alfaraby. I consider the player to be a fine young artist and have watch clips of him unplugged also and was taken aback
by his talent. You may be a great artist by comparison it is not for me to say I wouldn't know...but one isn't truely great by looking down on others
so. A great person has no need to.
A little respect in your heart would go far.
I'm sorry to speak so harshly...particularly on such a pleasant site.
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Aymara
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Hi again Diane,
Tony (Fernand) is right ... a lot of studio tricks
BTW ... HERE's a Taksim of one of my favorite oud players: Mehdi Haddab. He became famous by his works with Speed Caravan and DuOud ...
just search Youtube. That's the modern world of oud music
The deepest notes are from a bass. But hey ... you know how deep an oud can go from the unplugged videos ... no need to worry.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Luttgutt
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Here is one of MY favorits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOXwIYgl2MQ
P.s. Fernand, I am pretty sure the bass is oud. At least this sound is easely prodused by oud...
The wood might be dead, but the oud is alive.
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