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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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Hello, New on the forum . need help.
Hello all, I 've been learning oud for about 8 months. My musical pieces
Fairouz: sa'alouni el nass
habaytak tanseet el nom
Oum Kalthoum: Hobb ehh
leilat hobb
abd el -wahhab : ahwak
Many more like sit el 7abayeb, Tel3et ya ma7la nourha,zoroni .
I have a few questions.
1- I cant find the right kind of pick for me.I play with alot of trimono so i need a flexible fast material.
2-my oud doesn't sound like a oud. Many people on the internet play and the ouds sound deeper . My three last cords are no high.
what can i do. thx
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ExtreamTarab
Oud Junkie
Posts: 185
Registered: 8-31-2006
Location: Montreal, Canada
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Mood: ...Lessa Faker...
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Hey Ezz,
Welcome to the forums...and the oud world 
Well answering your question would be better done by people with more expertise in the forums but here is what I think. Finding the right pick is
defiantly important and one might have to try many until finding the one, then make sure it's not lost :p I have been using a horn pick lately and
find it to be responsive, the fact that you could sand it to the thickness you are most comfortable with was very helpful.
As for the sound of your oud, I would say the first thing to try is new strings...and a lower tuning makes the oud sound deeper usually so maybe you
could try to find the tuning that suits your oud best.
Ibrahim
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Hi Ezz ... welcome!
First you can tell us all we need to answer your question
What kind of oud is it ... turkish, arabic, floating bridge, fixed bridge, made of which woods, scale length (length of the strings), what string
brand, how old are the strings, what tuning do you use?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Manil
Oud Maniac
Posts: 77
Registered: 3-19-2010
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Take a look here for picks, you can try one of those also: http://www.khalafoud.com/picks.htm
Many people love the horn pick, I tried it and found it too hard, but as my friend ExtremeTarab said you can send it and have the right thickness.
Enjoy,
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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Baisc arabic tunning F A D G C F 5 double strings but the first is single.
here are some pics maybe they can help you guys because i have no idea. The good thing is it came from egypt. with a 100$ shipping cost . so the total
was 749$.
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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pics arent uploading ....and im not sure if that is even the right tunning. i should ask my teacher but its 6 strings with the first single string.
But my main problem is that the last 3 sound like a banjo or an Indian instrument.
thx guys.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Hi again!
I know a Greece oud player here in Germany, who has a very thin and flexible risha ... I wish I would have a similar one, but he couldn't remember
where to get them.
Horn rishas definitly sound best, but I found out, that turkey feathers with a thin quill also sound very good ... but they are stiff. On the other
hand, when the quill's top is filed perfectly round, even fast tremolos work fine. I bought a bunch of these feathers in a craft supplies shop.
I like these feathers ... they feal nice in my hand and they are the most traditional rishas besides eagle feathers, which I would never use because
of protection of species.
For that price it should be a good instrument. Interesting to know would be, which kinds of wood it was made of, because the wood choice has an
important influence on sound charateristics. A rosewood body for example has a much warmer bass than walnut.
I bet they are too big ... have a look at the upload limit ... 1 MB and 850x1500 pixels.
| Quote: | | and im not sure if that is even the right tunning. |
Are you shure it's FADGCF? That's more common on Iraqui ouds. The most common tuning seems to be CFADGC, which I use too. I myself don't like the
FADGCF tuning, because it lacks bass and sounds too much like a flamenco guitar to my ears.
| Quote: | | But my main problem is that the last 3 sound like a banjo or an Indian instrument. |
You mean the wound bass strings? Do you still use the strings the oud shipped with? If yes, change them ... factory strings are in most cases junk
Most people seem to use LaBella or Pyramid strings, but here in the forums Daniel Mari and Pyramid lute strings have the best reputation as it seems.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Ezz if you are using the factory strings, that's a mistake. Need new ones.
But also why did you tune it to the high tuning? If you tuned factory strings to a high tuning there is a good chance you are endangering the oud. The
common Arabic tuning is
C FF AA DD gg cc
The high tuning adds ff and drops the C. If your thinnest strings are e.g. 0.025" thick they are NOT designed to be tuned to f, but to c below,
because it's too much tension, and it would sound wrong. The right thickness nylon for tuning to f is around 0.020".
Look up string gauges with the Search button.
A good material for fast rishas is black acetal from Mideast Manufacturing, they resell it in packs of 10 on Amazon etc. Their horn stuff is more
expensive but even better. You have to sand to the right shape and edges for your playing, again search on this forum!
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
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Hello all my tunning is C FF AA DD gg cc like fernandraynaud said. they are factory strings but the oud came with extra strings from BAVLY EXPORT
the discription on the back is
NOTE 1(2) - .026inch
NOTE 2(2)- .033inch
NOTE 3(2)- .025inch
NOTE 4(2)- .029inch
NOTE 5(2)- .033inch
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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i posted a video on the web
im testing the 3 last strings
this is the link : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvAmCfMtoXY
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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From what I hear you have the top 3 courses tuned g c f. That top string sounds like an f. At the end of your (very helpful) video clip I think you
play the 3 courses open, and that top course is f.
So what is wrong is that you have tuned your oud to high tuning, and on top of that, the strings are likely not designed for it, and you could be
damaging the oud. The bridge can come unglued, and the soundboard can deform.
Put on your extra BAVLY strings, and tune the 5 top courses (ascending) F A D g c, then add an extra bottom string. You can use the lowest string you
have from your old set for now. You can order a single oud string on-line, or simply go to a guitar shop and buy a 0.041 inch to 0.043 inch Spanish
(nylon) guitar low E string (not a Western steel string guitar string), that will work OK and even the fattest one should give you no more than about
3.5 Kg of tension, which is fine.
Bavly makes some not-so-high-end things for MidEast Manufacturing, so I imagine you might want to order a 6 set of better strings in the long run.
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
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hahahahhaha yeah the video was a last minute thing. But I don't know how to install the strings and im afraid of damaging it. Im also a beginner so i
don't know how to tune the oud . My teacher usually does it.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud  |
Bavly makes some not-so-high-end things for MidEast Manufacturing, so I imagine you might want to order a 6 set of better strings in the long run.
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That's exactly, what I would recommend ... I would maybe choose an 11-string LaBella set, which sounds great, is available nearly everywhere and has
not that high tension as the Pyramid set.
No need to worry, you have to learn it anyway
As long as you don't tune a string too high, nothing bad will happen.
First you'll need a good tuner ... I use AP Tuner ... you just need a PC microphone. If you're interested, I can upload a configuration file, so that you can choose the oud tuning in the
software instead of guitar, without the need to configure it yourself.
Regarding the stringing of the oud ... HERE and HERE and HERE are stringing guides. Just make photos of your bridge and pegs before you take off the old strings to compare later and I bet you'll get it
going.
I bet with good strings, that have settled, you'll be happy with the sound of your oud.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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No, no, ezz your video was fine. But we need to confirm. The last 3 notes you play are the open top 3 courses? Yes? If so, your tuning goes up to f
and you want it to go to c. Chris is right, even with illustrations, take pictures of your pegbox etc if you take pegs out be sure to number them!
They are not interchangeable.
Good luck, not to worry, even some blind people can string an oud
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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thanks guys for the help. Im about to go to a music store here and i hope they have Pyramid strings or labella and when ill come back ill TRY to
install them and ill let u guys no what happens. wish me luck.
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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OR do you guys recommend i wait until i travel to Beirut, Lebanon on june 11th and have the strings replaced over there?Im very nervous because it is
my best friend and i dont want to damage it.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Well ... I think Labella strings would be a good compromise ... not too hard to get, less tension than Pyramid strings and so better for beginners and
they sound good.
So first check out how to get them ... if the local shop doesn't have them, order in an online shop.
When you have the strings, you can can decide, if you change the strings yourself or let it be done in Beirut.
But keep in mind that you have to learn it yourself! Maybe try only the deep C first?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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But he hasn't confirmed yet that the top course is tuned to f, which it is if he played the last 3 notes in his video clip on the 3 top courses open,
and if so, he cannot do a partial job, he has to set it as normal, not high tuning.
Ezz, I am worried for your oud. Stop dancing around and please take a moment to answer my question. Look at your video. The last 3 or 4 notes you
play, are they the open strings (not fingered) of your top 3 courses?
If yes, then your oud is tuned to high tuning, most likely using strings that are not designed for that, and if so you are stressing the oud. If that
is the situation you should not wait to do something. If the high note is f, try to drop the whole tuning to standard so the top string is c. That's a
start and will prevent davastation of the oud. What you do next is up to you.
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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the last seconds of the video i do play the strings open . Yes they are factory and Yes the rest of the strings are tuned. My teacher is a music
teacher in general. he knows how to play oud but doesnt know everything about it so if i am to explain it he won't understand.
I dont know what to do. If i take the strings out i wont be able to play. I understand that im supposed to learn it but right now im frightened for my
oud.
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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im going to order labella strings and install them with my teacher, maybe he knows more than i think he does.
thx alot guys.
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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<<"the last seconds of the video i do play the strings open . Yes they are factory and Yes the rest of the strings are tuned. ">>
Dude! What do you mean the strings "are tuned", of course they are tuned .. to something! The question is are they tuned to what they should be tuned
to.
Ok, so we know the top courses are tuned g, c, f.
That's a high tuning and it is why your oud sounds a bit like a ukulele.
Now the question is if the strings are meant for high tuning or not.
Most factory strings are not. So let's play it safe. Relax.
On an oud with a string length 24.25" that top nylon pair should be around 0.020" thick to be tuned to f.
If you have nylon strings around 0.024" for the high course, they should be tuned to c.
Why? Because if a 0.024" thick nylon string is stretched to sound f, it's pulled very tight. The other strings also, and that's a lot for the oud. So
regardless of what you do next month, take the tension down now.
Can you just drop the strings as follows? The following is a cute trick that was developed in sandstorms when nobody could see or hear anything
further away to tune to.
I'll leave out the traditional first step that involves a camel and a blanket, you don't need that part.
You start with the top course (pair) and lower its tuning (with the pegs) until the top course matches the one below it.
A D g c c
Repeat that on the second course now, so that the second course now matches the third.
A D g g c
Do that until 5 courses have been dropped as shown here.
Starting from
low A D g c f (f is hi course)
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Ending up as
low E A D g c (c is hi course)
Then tune the lone bass string the same as the top course, that's a C, obviously two octaves lower. If your oud started out tuned high, you have
dropped each course down "a fifth", it's now tuned standard.
The 5th course can be tuned to E or F as your teacher prefers. Does he have a white cane and dog? Does saliva drip down his chin when he plays? DOES
he play? OK, Then he should be able to help some.
Get APtuner and install on your notebook, use it to check your tuning. If you have an iPhone get Pano Tuner for $1.
http://www.aptuner.com/cgi-bin/aptuner/apmain.html
Not to panic.
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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ok so for the moment the only strings i can use are the extra ones that came with it. Im going to install them with my teacher and tune them to what u
told me with program u sent me. Until i get the labella strings ill play with those. Thanks alot guys.
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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Oh and the extra strings have only 2 pairs that are nylon . 0.026 and 0.033. is that good?
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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To order LaBella strings should not last very long ... maybe a week?
So if I were you, I would tune the factory strings to CFFAAddggcc and learn with that, until the LaBellas arrive.
In the meantime check out, who might help you with restringing, because your teacher isn't a real oud teacher. Maybe you know a violin or an accoustic
guitar player, who might be able to help?
BTW ... I attached the configuration files for AP Tuner, just for the case you need them. Just copy them to the AP Tuner directory, which is usually
"c:\program files\ap tuner". Then the tuner will start with the preset for C2 F2 A2 D3 G3 C4.
Attachment: tuner_config.xml (1kB)
This file has been downloaded 199 times
Attachment: tuner_presets.xml (519B)
This file has been downloaded 209 times
Attachment: tuner_stretch.xml (37kB)
This file has been downloaded 186 times
Attachment: tuner_temperament.xml (4kB)
This file has been downloaded 180 times
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Ezz-the-oudplayer
Oud Addict
Posts: 28
Registered: 5-6-2010
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thats strange. my teacher told me that the top single string is E.????????????????
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