Grant
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 8-27-2010
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New to oud
Sorry if anything I ask is over-asked. I searched a while but haven't found much.
As the title implies, I am new to the oud. I just bought one and it arrived yesterday. It is an Egyptian beginner's oud. It has 9 strings (5 course).
I have looked around and am still stumped on tuning. There is not much I can find on tunings for this set up. It does have holes in the bridge and
notches on the nut for another bass string and a course of higher strings so it looks like that can be added in the future.
As of now, I have it tuned to CFADG. I have read of another couple tunings like FADGC but is that advisable? I feel like I would break it. Any
suggestions on tuning?
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Danielo
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 7-17-2008
Location: Paris
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Hi Grant,
and welcome !
Yes often Egyptian ouds are strung with five courses (i.e. pairs of strings) but can accommodate an extra one.
The usual tuning, in the five-course configuration, is indeed (from low to high) FADGC, BUT you have to be sure that your string set is made for this
tuning.
In anycase, the strings coming with such ouds are usually worthless, so my first advice would be to by new strings. First you know what you are doing
with the tuning and you will immediately notice the sound improvement.
I recommend the Daniel Mari string set - very good, cheap and low tension (so it is
gentle with the instrument). It can be ordered here :
http://www.ostriemusicsupplies.com/marioud-ar.htm
Bill is very helpful and efficient. (I don't know where you are but I ordered to sets from Europe, shipping was very fast).
Be sure that you take the Arabic set, and not the Turkish one. It is made for a 11 strings setup, i.e.
from low to high CFADGC.
And above all enjoy your oud !
regards,
Dan
PS: don't forget, a given string set is made for a specific tuning, you can try many kinds of tunings but you have to change the strings diameters
accordingly !
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Grant
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 8-27-2010
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Good advice. I hear all the time pretty much no matter what kind of stringed instrument that new strings are advisable but I never have with my other
guitars and bass.
From what I understand in your post, its the strings and not so much the oud that makes the tuning? Can you still switch up tunings while having
strings rated for another?
On the nut since its notched for another course, is it ok to put more on? It looks like it would be really close to the edge of the neck and it would
make a good bend to get to the pegbox.
Most important question for right now: what should I have my oud tuned to with these strings so I can at least start learning before new strings come
in?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Welcome, Grant! It's nice we are seeing so many new oudies!
Almost all ouds are designed to hold 11 strings. It's OK if the 1st course runs close to the edge, as long as it's playable. How is the action on your
oud? Where did you get it? Tell us more, we're always looking for reports from the front. I don't mind repeating some basics that are difficult for
everyone to grasp at first.
You can tune any oud string to anything you want ... as long as you are sure the tension doesn't exceed 5 kg. Ouds come with all sorts of leftover
cheap strings.
Try the core Arabic tuning: ccggDDAA and the bass string to F or E. See how it feels. It should be about half the tension of a Spanish Guitar. If it
feels as tight as a Spanish guitar, you are over-stressing the oud. If it felt as tight as a Western (steel stringed) guitar, you are probably picking
up the pieces.
The topic of tuning is not that complicated. The core Arabic courses are always ccggDDAA with one or two bass courses, usually FF then C. The 5 course
setup only uses one bass course. A 7 course oud adds a high ff course. Some players tune a 6 course that way, leaving off the bottom course. The core
Turkish is two half steps higher. Because the Turkish oud has a shorter scale, it is tuned two half-steps higher using the same basic strings. It
makes people feel better to know they have the right strings, but Daniel Mari's standard Turkish and Arabic sets are identical, I know, I have both.
D'Addario makes only one set, J95, it is used by both Arabic and Turkish players, though the label and their tension data are (amazingly!) all wrong.
There are some specialized sets for different tunings, especially of the bass courses, like Armenian vs. Turkish Classical, and in those cases Arabic
and Turkish sets will differ. It is best to go by measured string gauges, not what the label says.
The important thing is the gauge of the strings. There are tables of tensions at different tunings for different gauges of plain and wound strings at
different scale lengths, and there are online calculators too, like Arto's. It's very helpful to have a micrometer or digital caliper. If you take
your oud down to the hardware store, you can probably borrow a micrometer to measure the string gauges and report back to us. If you also measure the
scale length we can tell you exactly what you can and cannot tune to with these strings. Look up a standard 11 string oud set like the D'Addario J95
on JustStrings.com, those are the standard gauges, they are very similar in other brands, like LaBella, Daniel Mari, etc etc.
The materials are relatively constant. The trebles on the oud are nylon or PVF or similar materials, like on the Spanish guitar. The basses are
silvered copper wound on nylon filaments, just like on Spanish (NOT Western) guitar. Some cheap oud strings use thinner winding wire and a thicker
fluff core, and thus weigh less per unit volume, and thus yield lower tensions. In fact Spanish guitar strings can be used as long as you respect the
need to keep the tension below 5 Kg per string, which boils down to gauges, materials, lengths and tuning.
Some oud players can't accept this, but the funny thing is that if you carefully analyze the parameters, it turns out that if you double up a Spanish
Guitar set (medium or light, with tensions under 7 Kg, with a wound G) they make a very reasonable oud set, yielding tensions around 3.5 Kg. Not to
belabor the point, but that's because the guitar's tuning is higher, and the scale is longer; the same strings on an oud are tuned down, on a shorter
scale, and are therefore correctly slack. Make sense?
OK, here's a practical example. I have a 600 mm oud I would like to tune Turkish. Although the scale is not the usual Turkish 585 mm, it's lower than
most Arabics. A standard Daniel Mari set works, except for my third course; that's a 0.024" and tuned up to EE it works out to over 5 kg tension. Too
high. I suppose I could use a plain pair instead of wound strings, I have some guitar Nylons (Nylon is usually 1050 Kg/cubic meter) in 0.040, that
would give me 3.4 Kg. I'm digging in my spare strings box for some thinner wound strings. Hmm ... these are old, keep looking.
My first course in PVF is 0.52 mm and tuned up to dd (PVF has a density of 1800 Kg/cubic meter density) that works out to a borderline 4.8 Kg. I could
use the standard Daniel Mari nylon 0.024" and that will be 3.8 Kg, but fortunately I have some 0.47 mm PVF, which will give us 3.9 Kg and will keep
PVF's brighter sound. It's all in the simple physics, nothing mysterious. Look at Arto's String Calculator
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Grant
Oud Admirer
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Registered: 8-27-2010
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Well, I had my dad bring home a digital caliper from work. The bass string is about 1 millimeters and the thinnest course is about .85 millimeters. If
what chart I read is correct, that should be about an 18 and 20 gauge. As for scale length, I have about 24".
Can I get a list of tunings I could use with my oud as is? Also, would someone be able to tell me if it'd be a hassel putting on those Daniel Mari
strings? As I said earlier, it looks like if I put a higher course on it would practically be off the neck board.
Thanks in advance
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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You have a precision instrument, use it. Your strings could be mismatched and in any case you need to measure each course exactly and specify if it's
plain nylon or wound. A digital caliper normally can read in metric or English. To convert inches to millimeters you multiply by 25.4 Strings are most
often specified in English gauges, i.e. in inches.
A Daniel Mari set typically has the following gauges and intended tuning on an Arabic scale:
0.025" plain cc
0.028" plain gg
0.024" wound DD
0.029" wound AA
0.033" wound FF
0.040" wound C
Putting on new strings is always a bit of a "hassel" so I'm not sure what you are asking. There's a recommended order and peg assignments on
oudcafe.com. There are many posts here on changing strings.
Is your scale 24 and a quarter ? The very common 615 mm oud scale is 25.21". Another, but different, scale is also "about 24 inches", namely 23.62"
There's no way anybody can tell you anything without precise information. It's not impossible your oud is an unplayable device known as a "tourist
money magnet." I gave you a lot of useful info to get started (in fact enough for you to answer your own questions.) But I also asked some specific
questions, including where the oud came from. Some clear photos would be helpful too. If you provide the data, we can give you precise answers.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Welcome Grant,
regarding stringing and tuning, don't miss the Oud Cafe.
I would recommend to start with the standard arab tuning CFAdgc.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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