dfontowitz
Oud Lover
Posts: 14
Registered: 6-7-2010
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Your take on "Arab Instruments" Sukar Ouds
Has anyone actually bought a Sukar Oud from Arab Instruments? Are they legit and what is the quality of the models they are offering? I'm looking
for a giging oud with good string action. I won't take my Mustapha out on gigs.
Thanks,
DF
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BaniYazid
Oud Junkie
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Location: France
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Hello,
You can read this thread : http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11112#pid76...
regards
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dfontowitz
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Thanks very much.
They sound legit, but it's the old problem of buying an instrument without playing it first, I guess.
Regards
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Though it's not about a Sukar, and I have no desire to interfere in your shopping, I think it's only fair that you read the whole thread that ends
with this:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=11020&p...
It's not easy answering people who want to know "the scoop" on a particular vendor. I have more than average experience with some of "these
gentlemen", and it's not right for me to go into agonizing detail, because each case is different. The important thing is that when the transaction
works out fine, there's no issue, why should there be, and when it's not, it's in large measure a matter of how you handle a crisis, how good your
backup plan is, and how far you are willing to go.
It seems impossible to explain to people whose experience is limited to a world where consumer protection is taken for granted, that they're entering
a world where NOTHING anybody says is what it seems, and where that's not considered in the least bit "unfair". People have widely different pain
thresholds, and since most people who buy ouds on the internet are novices, they aren't even able to provide, or receive, accurate feedback. It's
frustrating watching this.
As an example, though I explicitly stated very recently on this forum that the Sukar Model 14 has some significant finish problems of late, to the
point where the factory is limiting them, the next thing I see is someone who's merrily ordered a Model 14. If he's lucky enough to get one of the
rare 14s with a finish that's fine, he'll tell everybody how wonderful it is buying this way. Do you see the tip of the problem iceberg?
The one thing you can count on is that Sukars are generally consistent ouds, the Volkswagens of the oud world some people call them, I happen to
consider them Volvos, neither of which applies to the average ouds that are sold this way, and which can charitably be considered at best
"fixer-uppers". If these are purchased at a commensurate price, they offer a chance to develop some woodworking skills and an intimate knowledge of
one's instrument, while saving some money. As to Sukars, their strengths an weaknesses have been discussed here many many times.
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charlie oud
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Hi DF 
I would definately trust Arab instruments and feel sure you will be pleased with a Sukar oud. I own a Sukar as do many others players on this site.
Like Shehata ouds they have a dependable Arabic sound and very good playability.
Best Wishes, Charlie
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Charlie,
Nothing like "definitely" and "feel sure". 
I like Sukars a lot. I have three, a solid color walnut 1, a 14 and a 212. They are probably the safest "sight unseen" purchase. But there are people
who don't care for them, and not every Sukar is perfect.
As to "definitely trust" - why? It's even not a matter of who is legit. There's no mail order shop that everybody has had nothing but good experience
with. %$#% happens. I think it's important to be realistic and prepared. Shipping an oud back from some locations to others is prohibitive. For
instance, shipping to Israel is especially costly from the US. Unless they don't care, people should do their homework before they place an order,
plan for contingencies and discuss options, not blindly "definitely trust".
If I may ask, how many (and which) ouds have you bought from AI?
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charlie oud
Oud Junkie
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I have said "I" would definately trust Arab instruments, you can choose to trust too if you want. I trust unless I have good reason not to. Its a
choice. Thats all.
Best Wishes, Charlie
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dfontowitz
Oud Lover
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Thank you guys so much for all this very useful info. on Sukar and the Arab Instruments website. I love my Mustapha and also have a mid range turkish
I got from Lark in the morning about 15 years ago which sounds pretty good and has good action. I'm curious about the Sukar and would like to have an
Arabic style oud. I might take a chance and order one...still thinking.
Thanks,
DF
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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Charlie, I'm happy for you, that you're a positive guy. But I don't think it makes sense to give people who are asking a false sense of security. For
some, ending up with a loss or a headache is devastating.
DF: In case you haven't seen this, Sukar is one of only 3 makers that offers an adjustable neck, and of the other two one is a primo "boutique"
luthier and quite expensive, and the other is a very low volume shop.
To me an adjustable neck is a very important thing, as I dread unpredictable actions and neck jobs. That feature in itself greatly improves one's odds
in buying an instrument that you cannot try out, as a lousy action is a frequent character in the "oh crap" tragedies of mail order ouds. In addition,
wood distorts over time. I have one Sukar that has drifted (over a year) to where the adjustment range doesn't reach as low as I like to have in
reserve, but even then extending the range is a manageable job, as the neck can be removed without any saws or hammers, and the range of the
adjustment extended. There are photos and diagrams of what the internals look like. Interestingly, it turns out that the "homesick Egyptian sound"
depends to a degree on the way the strings meet the fingerboard, and a Sukar's timbre can be dialed-in rather more Turkish or more Egyptian by
adjusting the action.
Most vendors won't deliberately ship something the user will reject, as it's a nuisance for everybody. But they don't seem to have any qualms
about sending out a "fixer upper" if they think the buyer isn't too savvy. After all, those ouds gotta go somewhere. As they say in Tel Aviv,
in a related concept, somebody's gotta pay list. Fixer-uppers can be a great deal if you buy them cheap enough, and some of
them sound fantastic.
Also vendors don't necessarily inspect every oud the way an experienced player would, and I would humbly suggest buyers have a clear agreement with
their vendor as to what will be refunded for repairs if return shipment is prohibitive and repairs are needed upon arrival.
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dfontowitz
Oud Lover
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fernandraynaud,
I didn't know about the adjustable neck and never heard of it. How does that work? High action is a not a good thing. My second turkish is a Cakan
from 2001 and sounds really good with super low, buzzy action but with a deep bass and clear trebles. Not as refined and sophisticated as the
Mustapha and much more primitive in craftsmanship, but a good, loud sound.
Has anyone recently purchased any of these Sukars from AI? It looks like his latest pics of the ouds have the labels put in them. Someone is
listening to this forum over there.
DF
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
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DF: do some searching and reading in the forum, there's a LOT of valuable info here.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=10966#pid75...
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dfontowitz
Oud Lover
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OK, thanks.
I'll do that.
DF
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