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charlie oud
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High 'ff' or not? your views & preferences please
Dearest Members, hello 
I seem to have settled on not using a high ff course most of the time though at times I switch back. It is strange how the whole instrument and
approach feels so different with these two choices of stringing arrangement. I would be grateful if you would share your views and experiences on this
subject as I am still exploring !!! My thanks.
Best Wishes, Charlie
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Jonathan
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I don't understand. On an 11 string oud? You can tune it that high? What is the rest of the tuning like?
Thanks!
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Reda Aouad
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He surely means he replaces the strings or shifts them to change tuning get either the bass C of the treble ff..
Charlie.. now that I have a 13-string oud I'm pretty satisfied !
But if I have an 11-string one (and I did).. I prefer the C > cc tuning.. I can't live without the bass C ! So I trained myself to play high on the
cc string so I can along without the ff course. I also do it with my current oud for practice to be able to play any other oud (and seem more pro  )
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SamirCanada
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That's why we all need more then 1 oud. 
Myself I hesitate to tune my traditional bridge ouds that way. But definitely it's a nice to have.
7 course could be the best of both worlds if you like them. They are not my thing though, I don't really like the look and also I find the fingerboard
crowded. Z
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mrkmni
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I have 11 strings with g aa dd gg cc ff
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charlie oud
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Thank you for these replies, I will continue to explore. Sometimes I like the 5 course way FF AA dd gg cc as it can feel very complete and encourages
me to play through all strings alot more. I'm wondering, what are you views on the 5 course way?
Best Wishes, Charlie
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SamirCanada
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Hey Charlie
Thanks for voting on my contest thing btw.
I had that frame of mind for very long myself and I still think there is some value to it. If all the great oud players of the egyptian and syrian
school played that way for centuries and were very proficient, then why not try to stick with that tuning and develop my skills going deep into the
fingerboard. Also, Its better for the instrument long term because of the reduced tension.
I still have some ouds tuned only with 5 course but when I play with the high ff one, it opens up so much possibilities for melodies.
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charlie oud
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Thanks Samir for the encouragement,
Yes I think I will persue the 5 course for a while more. It sits comfortably with me, feels agreeable and like you say, has served history well. My
Sukar can also sound a bit piercing on the high ff course, this kinda puts me off a bit.
Best Wishes, Charlie
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Edward Powell
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this must be a relatively small oud?
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Edward Powell
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Quote: Originally posted by charlie oud  | | Thank you for these replies, I will continue to explore. Sometimes I like the 5 course way FF AA dd gg cc as it can feel very complete and encourages
me to play through all strings alot more. I'm wondering, what are you views on the 5 course way? |
It is good to keep in mind that maqam music was originally not intended to have any kind of exaggerated range. Maqam is meant to fit into the range of
the human voice.
What I am saying is that if you play pure maqam and follow a traditional seyir, then you will never need anything more than a 5 course oud. I find
myself rarely using more than 5 courses. That is, once I choose my tuning position - from there I only ever usually use 5 courses - - - - however
having an instrument with a wider range can allow you the variety of shifting from a low to a high tuning system in the middle of a concert.
Personally I usually don't like it if the playing goes out of character for a particular maqam... for example, if you are playing RAST, or USSAK,
then because these are low area maqams, then the playing is more in character if you simply remain in the low zone. Modern players however often start
RAST and then in no time are zooming off into the high f string on their 13 string ouds. This is exciting modern playing... but in my opinion not
anymore MAQAM RAST.
I know we now live in times where "over-stimulation" is necessary just to be noticed..... but there is something to be said for the sober simplicity
of doing our best within a modest range of possibilities (I know I am not one to talk, considering my own attempts to stretch the boundaries of the
oud - but if I have learned anything along the way it is to respect simplicity and modesty).
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charlie oud
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Edward,
I appreciate what you are saying and would add that when I hear higher notes on an oud I sometimes feel the "oud-ness" is a little less convincing,
like it coud be a mandolin or some other instrument doing this. Where as the bass in oud sound is always an evocative oud sound exclusively. Unique to
ouds, like nothing else can sound this way.
Best Wishes, Charlie
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Edward Powell
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I also think the oud can sound amazing in many registers. For example one of my very favorite oudis is Y.Bacanos --- and he is well known for playing
very high. He has the high ff course, and he usually uses the 3rd nylon as his DUGAH note. Therefore everything sounds high, but his MAKAM is still
traditionally accurate because the low area makams are being started high - yes, almost as if being played on a different instrument. . . . but what
a great sound anyway!
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mrkmni
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Not really Sukar Model 1
61.5 cm
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Sazi
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Excuse me, those who know, but...
Judging from a couple of comments here- "how do you tune that high" & " must be a... small oud" - it appears a few people are perhaps unclear
about the fact that it is not a matter of tuning the standard strings up a 4th higher, but the addition of a thinner pair added to the set for the
high ff's.
I couldn't live without my high ff's, but do love and miss the low C!
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charlie oud
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Yes Sazi, you are right we are talking about adding the thinner string and losing the single bass C or D.
Funny You miss the low C though could'nt be without the high ff.
I am starting to settle with niether by playing 5 course FF AA dd gg cc. For me this gives a fullness of the two octaves in Nahawand all very neatly
under the left hand. I.e. G on 5th to g open 2nd for the dominant, and C on 4th to c open 1st for the tonic. Nice and cosy in 3 or 4 note bite size
chunks!!!
Of course the important thing is that we all find our way and stay open minded to change if we feel like experimenting
Best Wishes, Charlie
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SamirCanada
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I am telling you Charlie,
this is where you can make the arguments to your significant other that you should own at least 3 ouds 
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charlie oud
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Indeed. She knows I'm keen and after more ouds, I'm trying to play it cool, not push my luck.
Best Wishes, Charlie
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Sazi
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| Quote: Originally posted by SamirCanada | I am telling you Charlie,
this is where you can make the arguments to your significant other that you should own at least 3 ouds
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That is SO true!
(you can quote me on that to the missus if you think it might help  ... it
didn't with mine... but we still see each other occasionally)
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charlie oud
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 Cheers
Saz, I'll let her know, then I'll stand back in case she does this
Best Wishes, Charlie
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Sazi
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Hehe!, it's funny, we play more music together now than ever.
Well, when I'm playing the music my oud (floating bridge) and tuning (Iraqi) were designed for I need the high ff's, and don't need the low C, I have
exactly what I need, nothing more, nothing less. But I sometimes feel like playing something deep and soulful, and the low C would be a must-have for
me, along with the generally lower tension of a fixed bridge oud. The case for a few ouds is a very strong one... er... excuse that pun. 
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charlie oud
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Iraqi tuning is FF CC dd gg cc ff Yes?, I love this tuning too, the open CC is so rich.
Oh no, thats another oud I need.
Nice pun Saz.... more accurately, you will need more than one case for a few
ouds
Thanks to all for contributing to this thread, its been a delight
Best Wishes, Charlie
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Multi Kulti
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| Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell | | ...For example one of my very favorite oudis is Y.Bacanos --- and he is well known for playing very high. He has the high ff course, and he usually
uses the 3rd nylon as his DUGAH note. Therefore everything sounds high, but his MAKAM is still traditionally accurate because the low area makams are
being started high - yes, almost as if being played on a different instrument. . . . but what a great sound anyway! |
Edward what makes you to say that Bacanos used high ff course? Thats cannot be. First of all he used the all fourths tuning (C#C# F#F# BB ee aa dd).
If he would use a high course that would be gg because of the turkish tonic.
But of course he had the ability and technik to play in the higher register with accuracy and he was a master on it.
Correct me if im wrong
best regards
Nikos
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Edward Powell
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| Quote: Originally posted by Multi Kulti | | Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell | | ...For example one of my very favorite oudis is Y.Bacanos --- and he is well known for playing very high. He has the high ff course, and he usually
uses the 3rd nylon as his DUGAH note. Therefore everything sounds high, but his MAKAM is still traditionally accurate because the low area makams are
being started high - yes, almost as if being played on a different instrument. . . . but what a great sound anyway! |
Edward what makes you to say that Bacanos used high ff course? Thats cannot be. First of all he used the all fourths tuning (C#C# F#F# BB ee aa dd).
If he would use a high course that would be gg because of the turkish tonic.
But of course he had the ability and technik to play in the higher register with accuracy and he was a master on it.
Correct me if im wrong
best regards
Nikos |
no I am also not completely sure... but of course he was in turk tuning... i don't know if he used the "tiz cargah" high course - but i think he
used the A nylon course as DUGAH.
i love that sound!
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Sazi
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| Quote: Originally posted by charlie oud | Iraqi tuning is FF CC dd gg cc ff Yes?, I love this tuning too, the open CC is so rich.
Oh no, thats another oud I need.
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you got it!
Yes, I love the rich resonance of ouds with doubled tunings, like the CC & cc, F & ff of Iraqi or the Turkish E's & A's (EABead).
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mrkmni
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So do you recommend to keep this tuning or go to FF CC DD gg cc ff
tks
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