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danieletarab
Oud Junkie
Posts: 213
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Location: Palermo (Italy)
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Faruk Turunz reduced price and arabic ouds
Hello guys!
I am thinking of getting a new and better arabic oud. I was wondering if anyone of you has ever tried Faruk Turunz arabic oud (tuned in C), and his
reduced price (1000 dollars) ouds. What do you think about?
Thank you very much!
Daniele
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
Registered: 10-14-2009
Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Master Faruk has a good reputation here in the forums. I once had the chance to test one of his ouds, which someone in Germany wanted to sell second
hand. This guy was lucky and found an antique oud, which he loved even more than Faruk's ... it was a bit smaller and he has relatively short arms.
But that's a different story ... I liked the Turunz oud very much (good sound, great action, very nice craftsmanship), but it was above my price range
at that time.
But that was before the "reduced price range times". Maybe someone else has expirience with them.
PS: One further thing, which comes to my mind ... the climate in Istanbul is more like in Europe, than the middle east or the Magreb are. I think
there's more risk for the wood over time, when you buy an oud from a very dry country, when you live and play in Europe, where the humidity is much
higher.
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
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Faruk specializes in Turkish ouds... however JT plays mostly on a Faruk Arabic style oud --- I can remember hanging out a lot with JT in Cairo, and
JT was continuously saying how much he absolutely loved his Faruk Arabic oud. In my opinion it also sounds great.
The reduced price oud is going to sound to sound great also because Faruk's production is scientifically regulated for consistency and accuracy.
Personally I would say go for it before Faruk changes his mind about the reduced price thing... hurry up!
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jass
Oud Maniac
Posts: 95
Registered: 11-7-2008
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From what I know JT stopped performing on Faruk Turunz instruments years ago and now has a JT signature Series by Oud maker Veysel Sarikus. You can
see this on his website. http://www.josephtawadros.com/oud.html
Maybe you should think about getting a Sarikus oud? Great sound, reputation, quality and well priced. He also makes them especially to your order,
theres no reduced price point because they are already reasonably priced.
Heres JT playing a Sarikus Oud: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjwW5oSTMPs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NilHdbxQZ7Q
I havent played a Turunz oud but what I can hear, he probably makes better Turkish ouds than one suitable for Arabic tuning, in my opinion. Whatever
decision you make, it'll be the right one.
Good luck!
Jass.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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I have been very impressed with the sound of both Turunz and Sarikus ouds. However, neither has the traditional Arabic sound.
It is a great sound, but it depends on what you want.
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Ahmed
Oud Addict
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Hello Daniele,
I have an Arabic one tuned in F and I am very pleased with it. I have also tried Turkish tuning on it (using the right set of strings of course!) and
it still sounded very nice.
Ahmed
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
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...at the end of the day, if you want to save money, just make one for yourself - that's what I did originally... I just wanted to save some money...
and building my first oud started me off on a Life's adventure leading me places I could never have imagined.
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Aymara
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1162
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Location: Germany / Ruhr Region
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Your Youtube link didn't work ... I think this is your video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnTmBmUhpho
Correct?
Greetings from Germany
Chris
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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It sounds like a very nice Turkish oud to me. Hijaz on D ... I wonder in what sense it's Arabic, beside the tuning.
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danieletarab
Oud Junkie
Posts: 213
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Location: Palermo (Italy)
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Thanks to all of you! I know that Turunz ouds are wonderful. I had the chanche to try a turkish one, but I play with arabic tuning. Actually
Fernandraynaud seems to be right: it sounds maybe more turkish than arabic (middle range sound clear sound). Of course that doesn't mean that it
doesn't sound great!
I still don't understand the real difference between the 1000 dollars one, and the 3000 dollars. Is it a matter of quality of wood and ornaments?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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... and the good will of Mr Turunz. I've heard comments like "those reduced price point ouds are not as good as his regular ouds", but frankly I
suspect it's something that someone who paid $3000 for a Turunz oud would naturally believe. Of course, they're not quite as blingy as his more
expensive ones, but ...
As far as the differences between Turkish and Arabic ouds go, one of the factors is the height of the action. A Turkish oud relies on a very low
action to give that zzzzzing, where an Arabic oud must clear the fingerboard a little more to get a clearer more percussive sound.
With Sukar ouds we can change it a bit at any time by raising and lowering the neck angle. I tweak my Model 14 sometimes with the action over 3.5 mm
for the more Arabic sound, while my 212 sounds almost Turkish as I keep the action under 2.5mm.
It's like on a fretless bass, where the coveted "mwah" fretless timbre is most pronounced with roundwound strings zzzinging on a very low action. As I
use flatwounds, I'm always touching up the action on my fretless basses to keep it as low as possible, though to get a strong percussive bass sound I
need the strings to be a little higher. Tricky.
Since Turunz ouds don't have an adjustable action, I suspect Mr Turunz is between a rock and a hard place, since a low action is much nicer to play
on. Between the smaller body, his greater experience with Turkish ouds, and the action being low, his ouds, in spite of being braced for Arabic
tuning/timbre, will have a tendency to sound "rather Turkish", as in the video. If someone wanted to emphasize the Arabic side, raising the action a
bit by rotating the loops upward on the bridge can probably help a lot.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Fernand, you've said this many times, and while you're right that Turkish ouds often have slightly lower action, that is not the difference in tone
quality that we are talking about when we say "Turkish" or "Arabic".
It has more to do with the "scooped" mids of a Turkish oud, which emphasize the bass and treble, versus the pronounced mids and tight bass of an
Arabic oud. The buzziness of the action, while sometimes a feature with Turkish ouds, is not the main factor.
Turunz ouds don't exactly sound "Turkish" either, he just has his own sound, a very balanced sound that has an almost European conception of tonal
purity, rather than the preference for more "nasal" sounds often prominent in Arabic music.
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
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Doesn't sound very Turkish to my ears.
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
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Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka  | the "scooped" mids of a Turkish oud, which emphasize the bass and treble, versus the pronounced mids and tight bass of an Arabic oud. ....the
preference for more "nasal" sounds often prominent in Arabic music.
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I would say it is the exact opposite. What give a Turkish oud its sound is the nasal quality - very very strong mids.
As far as Arabic ouds go, you can not generalize because there are too many types... but to my ears none of them have such strong mids as Turkish
ouds.
There is a reason for this... the main difference between Turkish and Arabic bracing is that that Arabs make all the braces tall. Turkish make all
braces tall except for the 3rd brace which is trimmed down to about 4 or 5mm... it is this 3rd brace which coresponses to the mids, therefore they
are more "alive" on a Turkish oud because the 3rd brace is so small.
But maybe I missed something along the way, Brian, please enlighten me, can you post some clips to support your view?
Thanks
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ameer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 464
Registered: 9-14-2009
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Raising the action is an easy way to boost the mids and bring out that more Arabic flavor. I do it a lot on smaller ouds as they tend to be brighter
to begin with. The thing to be aware of is that with certain ouds and with certain strings it can disproportionately boost a very narrow frequency
band which brings out an unpleasant metallic ping when you play certain open strings. Also PVF strings are typically less sensitive to height changes
than nylgut which, depending on whether or not you want a little honk in your sound, can be desirable. If you bring it high enough a nylgut string
will sound a lot like a car horn.
I'm curious to know if it makes a difference whether you raise the action through changing the neck angle or raise it through raising the string loops
which increases the neck angle but also brings the strings further from the face.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
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Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Perhaps we need to distinguish between low mids and high mids, I suppose one might say that the high mids are emphasized in Turkish ouds, along with
the highs in general, while the low mids are emphasized in Arabic ouds.
It would be interesting to do a spectral analysis of various ouds, subjective perceptions are not going to get us anywhere, and I don't think that
sound clips are particularly useful for comparison.
By the way, note that I was saying that Turunz ouds have a more "pure" sound conception, not Turkish ouds in general. The way you quoted me makes it
seems like I was referring to Turkish ouds, when the sentence clearly says "Turunz ouds don't exactly sound "Turkish" either".
I agree that raising the action slightly does give a bit more Arabic flavor, but I don't think it is a substitute for a real Arabic-sounding oud.
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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Dear all, (who have contributed to this thread which is directly relevant to my name and a special production line and the respected members of these
forums who have been following the contributions and additionally who have ever read these exchange of ideas).
I am well aware that I've extended the addressing sentence too much but that's my basic aim to ınterfere to this thread where my name and my
"REDUCED PRICE POINT OUD LINE" flitting over the lines:
Let me enunciate proudly and arrogantly that:
I AM THE ONLY MAN WHO HAVE EXPLORED ALL THE "SECRETS" OF THE OUD IN THE HISTORY !!!!
I am also the creator of the original "BRACE TUNING METHOD" which enables one to make his or her oud sound in a typical manner: Turkish, Arabian and
Iraqi or Armenian, as well...
The only reason that some officious gentlemen classify my ouds as "non Arabic" is the consequence that I desire it to be in that way: I don't want to
construct any ouds sounding "ARABIC" or "ARABIAN"
HERE GOES!!!!
Which smart Alec has constructed 1500-1600 ouds in his life and which naive READER is incapable to understand what's going on here. Those gentlemen
have never contacted me personally through my e-mail address and they just abuse these forums' pages for priggery.
If they had contacted me via my e-mail to order an "ARABIC OUD" which will fit to their rudimentary delight, I WOULD MAKE THAT OUD FOR THEM WITHOUT
CHARGING A PENNY .
But they don't have this sort of self confidence to do this.
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
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| Quote: Originally posted by Brian Prunka | Perhaps we need to distinguish between low mids and high mids, I suppose one might say that the high mids are emphasized in Turkish ouds, along with
the highs in general, while the low mids are emphasized in Arabic ouds.
It would be interesting to do a spectral analysis of various ouds, subjective perceptions are not going to get us anywhere, and I don't think that
sound clips are particularly useful for comparison.
By the way, note that I was saying that Turunz ouds have a more "pure" sound conception, not Turkish ouds in general. The way you quoted me makes it
seems like I was referring to Turkish ouds, when the sentence clearly says "Turunz ouds don't exactly sound "Turkish" either".
I agree that raising the action slightly does give a bit more Arabic flavor, but I don't think it is a substitute for a real Arabic-sounding oud.
|
Well perhaps we can say that ouds don't have 'real' bass - and in fact their 'bass' is actually very low mids. . . .but in my opinion, whatever
you want to call it, to my ears the one blatantly obvious characterizing feature of Turkish ouds is that the nasal mids come out so strongly and
beautifully - this is why I love Turkish ouds so much.
In my opinion Turkish ouds are not very strong on highs... at least the old school Turkish sound seems mostly mids, and some bass, and few highs. . .
. . the modern Turkish sound is much more bright it seems to me.
It seems to me that a typical "Arabic" sounding oud is very rich in bass (or low mids if u prefer that term)... and very rich in highs... often
lots of squeaky nylon shredding (which I like very much!).
I just don't get why people keep saying that Arabic ouds have more mids? That's one myth that needs shooting down in my opinion 
- - -
Hi Faruk Usta!
Hey, I have a question. . . just for a laugh have you ever used your brace tuning method to try to create the worst possible sounding oud while
still staying within the acceptable range of brace hights, positions, and soundboard thicknesses??? Actually this is a serious question --- and it
might be an interesting way to show people that it is not enough just to randomly build soundboards according to rough approximations. It would be
interesting to hear 2 of your ouds side by side: one properly brace tunes, and a second with the braces out of tune.
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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Mood: hopeful
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| Quote: Originally posted by Edward Powell |
Hi Faruk Usta!
Hey, I have a question. . . just for a laugh have you ever used your brace tuning method to try to create the worst possible sounding oud while
still staying within the acceptable range of brace hights, positions, and soundboard thicknesses??? Actually this is a serious question --- and it
might be an interesting way to show people that it is not enough just to randomly build soundboards according to rough approximations. It would be
interesting to hear 2 of your ouds side by side: one properly brace tunes, and a second with the braces out of tune. |
Hi Eddi!
Thanks for your illuminating questions.
First of all, "tuning" of the braces is not sentient necessarily and not peculiarly bound to ones design. They (the specific frequencies of the
braces) stay there, whether correspond with a parallel order with the strings' frequencies or haphazard. There are resonant areas on the S.B. which
correspond with the frequencies produced by the strings. If one makes the bracing without respecting to a principle and decide for the average
thickness of the S.B. by only copying the good masters' ouds the result no doubt will be haphazard. May God give a good chance 
Of course throughout hundreds of years hundreds and thousands of experiments have been done by the luthiers to find out the most appropriate patterns
for bracing which comprise the intersection and the profile of the braces, placing them on the S.B. and the thickness of it. Many of us have been
trying to copy those patterns with success and failure and have attributed the result to some unknown and somehow "mystical" properties of the wood
used.
No! No! I will make an "ARABIAN" sounding oud of which the counterparts' sound can be heard all around the Arabic countries. The interesting question
is this: Why the % 95 of my customers are from Arabic countries?
Most probably they prefer those of my ouds which have been designed especially for "ARABIAN TUNING"
Or can you attribute this to their unawareness of these gentlemen's "enlightening(!)" comments!!!
Of course I will make one sample "ARABIC OUD" to show to the world how my BRACE TUNING METHOD is versatile)
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Now, Mr Turunz, as you can see, there is wide disagreement over what constitutes "Turkish" vs. "Arabic" timbre in an oud.
But, truly, as rudimentary prigs, it makes perfect sense that we should be so ignorant. We have not built 1600 ouds. Each of us has had access to
maybe a handful of instruments, and listened to many poor recordings. Moreover, recordings can completely alter/mask/conceal the sound of an
instrument. As THE ONLY man who has elucidated all the secrets of the oud in history, why don't you make some wider use of your knowledge and actually
explain it to us in terms of the resonant nodes, the emphasized frequencies, the various sonic artifacts, that add up to what many people would accept
as sounding "Turkish" vs. "Arabic"?
From your post it seems you are a bit angry. I wonder how you would benefit if we didn't take interest in the issues and argue, if we shut up and just
let this, and other threads, fade into the archives.
Personally, what I hear in that youtube clip is not exactly Turkish, but along the continuum from the most plunky gut-buckets of North Africa to the most Sazzy shoe-boxes of the
Bosphorus, it seems closer to Northern tone than old-fashioned Arabic.
And, Brian, I humbly apologize for saying things more than once, though it could be viewed as sharing with new members on our forum ;-)
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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Hey Fernand, no need to apologize, I just feel that it is a misleading suggestion to tell someone that the difference in sound is just a matter of
raising the action. I think you should maybe make it clearer that it is just a nudge and not the primary difference.
Edward, I don't see any point in arguing about this, the only way to settle it is to do an in-person spectral analysis of a number of ouds both
Turkish and Arabic and study the data. Obviously our subjective perceptions are different, and it would be illuminating to review hard data. However,
I do not have time to do this and don't really see any point in doing so merely to satisfy curiosity.
Dear Mr. Turunz,
I am perplexed by your indignant tone. I have repeatedly praised your ouds in the highest terms, and I haven't suggested that you couldn't make a
traditional Arabic-sounding oud if you wanted to.
In fact, quite to the contrary, I believe you certainly could if that was what you wanted.
I find it impressive that you have explored the oud so thoroughly and I consider it a tremendous accomplishment that you have created an oud which
transcends the distinctions between Turkish and Arabic--it is a remarkably pure and balanced sound, probably as close to an acoustically perfect oud
as can be acheived. It is perfectly understandable that, since a "traditional" Arabic sound is acoustically imperfect in many ways, that you prefer
to use your more advanced techniques.
I do not discourage anyone from purchasing your ouds, but I do think that people should understand what they are getting.
I personally think your ouds are amazing and would love to own one someday.
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
Member Is Offline
Mood: hopeful
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| Quote: Originally posted by fernandraynaud | Now, Mr Turunz, as you can see, there is wide disagreement over what constitutes "Turkish" vs. "Arabic" timbre in an oud.
But, truly, as rudimentary prigs, it makes perfect sense that we should be so ignorant. We have not built 1600 ouds. Each of us has had access to
maybe a handful of instruments, and listened to many poor recordings. Moreover, recordings can completely alter/mask/conceal the sound of an
instrument. As THE ONLY man who has elucidated all the secrets of the oud in history, why don't you make some wider use of your knowledge and actually
explain it to us in terms of the resonant nodes, the emphasized frequencies, the various sonic artifacts, that add up to what many people would accept
as sounding "Turkish" vs. "Arabic"?
From your post it seems you are a bit angry. I wonder how you would benefit if we didn't take interest in the issues and argue, if we shut up and just
let this, and other threads, fade into the archives.
Personally, what I hear in that youtube clip is not exactly Turkish, but along the continuum from the most plunky gut-buckets of North Africa to the most Sazzy shoe-boxes of the
Bosphorus, it seems closer to Northern tone than old-fashioned Arabic.
And, Brian, I humbly apologize for saying things more than once, though it could be viewed as sharing with new members on our forum ;-)
|
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=13132#pid89...
and
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=13253#pid90...
Not angry but I'm frustrated.
Please show and let us listen to a sample sound of a sample "old-fashioned Arabic oud"
Regards
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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Mood: hopeful
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So am I... (perplexed by some people's "moderate" tone).
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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You are treated here with the utmost respect, even obsequiousness. I can understand your pride in your work. But all the narration of your advanced
brace tuning lacks what I'm asking about : a clear summary of what constitutes the characteristic sonic differences between Turkish and Arabic ouds.
I have one oud that to my ears is rather "old fashioned Arabic" and I'll endeavor to make a transparent recording. What struck me in looking at
captured spectra, was that the "ker-plunk" mini-echo that I notice in the Arabic sound was indeed visible as a sharply stepped development of the
harmonics. Surely, if such rudimentary examination can yield delights, you have done much more, examined countless spectra and instruments, and have
the skill to communicate in a paragraph what makes an oud sound Turkish vs. Arabic, even if this is a moving target as tastes change.
This oud sounds pretty Arabic to my ears:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmlzEEKbfXU&feature=related
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Edward Powell
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1212
Registered: 1-20-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: g'oud
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yes! This is typical Arabic tone!
...except at 0.28 - 0.30 seconds.... here it sounds more like John Lee Hooker!
PS... also, listen to how buzzy the action is on the low strings! Maybe that myth that only Turkish ouds use buzzy low action should be shot down
also? [Ever heard Hazem Shaheen?]
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