Lysander
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These two pieces for performance
So after a talk with my oud teacher we have decided the two pieces I should do for my Performance unit at uni. They will be farahfaza samai by Haydar
and bayati samai by Ibrahim al aryan.
I have been learning these pieces for a few weeks. My teacher says I am "80%" with them and the performance is in two and a half months. Any
particular advice that anyone can give about playing them?
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alaaraj
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Is it possible to post a video here, for better feedback?
Onwards and upwards
HazRaj
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Jody Stecher
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Or at least identify the 20 % that needs help. What are the problems? Pitch? Clarity of execution ? Keeping the meter?
I can give one piece of advice that can't hurt. Listen to recordings of several accomplished musicians playing these pieces. At least 3 recordings of
Targan Hayder playing his own Ferahfazah composition are easily found on the internet. As for the Al Arian piece, there are dozens. Listen to all the
ones played by competent soloists or ensembles. Whatever they have in common, *that* is how this samai goes.
good luck getting the high positions in tune in the fourth (k)hana of the Ferahfaza!
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Lysander
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Yes, I thought someone would ask for a recording. I will make a video in the next few days. It won't be perfect but it will be... something!
As for your questions Jody, they are very good ones. I think for the bayati my problems are getting the meter in the 2nd hana. There's that one bar
that always does my head in:
and I know how this bar goes but when I am confronted with it in the piece I always get it out of step!
As for the farahfaza, yes, that fourth hana. I am fine with the meter, but getting the notes in tune is tough!
So I would say at this point the problem is meter for the bayat and pitch for the farahfaza [also the second half of the third hana needs a little
work in part].
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Jody Stecher
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Quote: Originally posted by Lysander  | Yes, I thought someone would ask for a recording. I will make a video in the next few days. It won't be perfect but it will be... something!
As for your questions Jody, they are very good ones. I think for the bayati my problems are getting the meter in the 2nd hana. There's that one bar
that always does my head in:
and I know how this bar goes but when I am confronted with it in the piece I always get it out of step!
As for the farahfaza, yes, that fourth hana. I am fine with the meter, but getting the notes in tune is tough!
So I would say at this point the problem is meter for the bayat and pitch for the farahfaza [also the second half of the third hana needs a little
work in part]. |
Right. Well I understand this sort of problem easily. A possible remedy for the Bayati is to not look at the page when you get to this small section
(if you are reading in your recital). If you memorize this section the hemidemisemi quavers or whatever they are won't make you cross-eyed.
Oh! and don't forget to breathe.
As for the high positions in the Farahfezah the remedy is to practice this section very slowly. No! Slower than that. Nope, not slow enough. OK,
that's more like it. Once you can get it in tune at an absurdly slow speed you can gradually get it up to speed. In fact, before playing it slowly
just play the pitches in sequence with no thought of metre. Get your fingers in the right places. Then begin at 1/8 speed or something like that.
Once you get it up to half speed then many many repetitions will be useful. What will *Not* be useful to get this section in tune or to get the
troublesome Bayati section in time, is to practice the whole piece from the beginning and then when you get to the trouble spot and once again go
wrong, to go back to the beginning and try again. Not productive. You are at 80%, so presumably "parts of it are excellent". At this stage, focus
on the trouble spots and on the transitions into the trouble spots and out of the trouble spots. I don't mean you should ignore the rest of the piece.
I'm talking about not painting the bedroom closet door as a solution to a leaking roof in the kitchen.
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Lysander
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I'm trying to do both pieces from memory. At this time I am using a metronome and sometimes a sampled samai thaqil rhythm. However my oud teacher is
kind of against the idea of my using a metronome in the long run because he says the metronome should be in my head. As for the performance itself I
am unsure of whether to do the pieces on my own or have a riq backing. I like the idea of the backing since it will give me some kind of foundation,
but I'm not sure yet.
I'll try your advice on the Haydar Jody. Sometimes that part sounds great and sometimes it's a bit off. But I will get to the point where I hit it
10/10 times rather than 5/10 times. I think I have a good amount of time to do that. Rather than just playing the pieces every day I will concentrate
on sorting out the harder sections. I like it when one masters a harder section so much so that when one has to play that part of the piece one
actually looks forward to it. Does that make sense?
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Lysander
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So here is the bayati samai for starters, open to critique. A couple of things with this recording, firstly I think I'm playing it too quickly and
secondly, some of the pitch is off - but the meter seems actually OK to me! So maybe it was a pitch problem for this one, after all. Please let me
know what you think needs improving:
https://youtu.be/EmAjpT7tWNg
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Jody Stecher
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We cannot see your right hand, and that is at least as important as the left. There may be right hand things you can change in your grip of the
plectrum to improve the music. Let us see the right hand in the next video please.
My impression is that you are bearing down on the fingerboard harder than necessary for vibrato.
The speed is faster than average but not excessive. You might find that you are playing more expressively if the speed were slightly slower. At any
rate the music will be enjoyed by the audience more if the player enjoys it more. If you like this piece, convey that as a child naturally does
through singing. There is no technique for that but there are some enablers. For instance at present the only expressive device you are using is
vibrato. I would suggest using a lot more tremolo. It enlivens Arabic music on the oud. A few left hand ornaments would be good. The Segah sound would
benefit from this or from tremolo when it is a note of long duration.
You are playing a bare-bones version of this piece. If a more fleshed-out, more ornamented version were being played on violin or ney or qanun, your
oud version would be very supportive of that and would go along well. But since this is going to be a performance of solo oud (with or without
percussion) I think a bit more melodic detail would be a good thing. Especially the khana would be enlivened by small melodic differences and
ornamental differences each time you play it. It gets played so often so some variety would make the performance more colorful.
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Lysander
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Indeed Jody, this is the bare bones version, here is my version of the segno [audio only] with a little more expression:
https://soundcloud.com/lysander-1/bayat-sample/s-YLFKh
My teacher seems to be intent with my doing a bare bones version for now. I think his intention is for me to master it bare bones and then add
ornamentations, rather than trying to add them when it is still "80%".
I agree with everything you say - like this it would be quite text book, it needs some more colour and more importantly in my view, character, so I
can add my own understanding and interpretation of the piece.
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Brian Prunka
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Overall you play the basic piece well—the notes are correct and the intonation is decent.
There is a lack of rhythmic flow, I'd suggest practicing it much slower with a metronome and playing as relaxed as possible. There are many points
where you rush ahead rather than holding notes and rests at their full value—this creates an anxious, unsettled feeling.
As Jody mentioned, your left hand is pressing much too hard, this is why you don't have an effective vibrato. The F in bayati should nearly always
have a very wide expressive vibrato. The sikah should not usually have vibrato—it normally has some kind of other ornament (turn, neighbor tone
etc.).
Khana II has some rhythmic problems. It may help to think of the third measure of Khana II as having the C on beat 8 and the G on beat 10—the other
notes are grace notes. The ending of that khana needs to have the D land precisely on beat 10.
Khana III- watch the intonation of the Eb.
Overall notes:
As Jody suggested, playing more variations and ornaments would bring it to life. Especially if you are repeating the taslim each time, it is very
boring to play it exactly the same 8 times! I generally prefer to repeat the khanat and not the taslim except at the end, this creates a more
balanced sense of new material and repetition.
If you want to do 'bare bones', I think you should actually simplify it even further in some spots—some of the things you are doing in the taslim
are interpretive and might get in the way of you creating variations.
You could do a lot more with dynamics and subtle vibrato, grace notes, tremolos etc. Especially experiment with dynamics in Khana IV. Three ways you
could vary the dynamics:
1) Alternate loud/soft phrases (particularly the high/low question/answer parts)
2) Have crescendo/decrescendo across a phrase
3) Vary the accent patterns (for instance, you can play 6/8 or 3/4 accent pattern, or syncopated patterns)
Try to make the transition from Khana IV back into the Taslim smoother—you could use the phrase that you play between repeats of the Taslim to do
this.
I'd suggest really listening to a bunch of versions of this to get a sense of the ornamentation and variations ingrained in your ears. You already
have the basics, it just needs to be more solid and expressive.
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Lysander
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Brian, you offer some truly excellent advice, thank you very much. I will indeed slow it down with a metronome to get a proper feel for it, and I
should create some sort of playlist for variations of both pieces too. My oud teacher did say that I needed to improve the flow better but to be
honest I was confused by what this really meant. Now I understand it as just not rushing and giving every note the space to breathe. But I think what
is also important is to get an innate understanding of the piece, to really feel it on a personal level, as my teacher says, to connect with the music
behind the notes.
I am a little unsure of what you mean by the high/low question answer parts. Are some of the phrases implied as being 'in response' to others? If that
is the case it would be a lot easier to show an understanding of the piece's dynamics.
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Jody Stecher
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| Quote: Originally posted by Lysander | Brian, you offer some truly excellent advice, thank you very much. I will indeed slow it down with a metronome to get a proper feel for it, and I
should create some sort of playlist for variations of both pieces too. My oud teacher did say that I needed to improve the flow better but to be
honest I was confused by what this really meant. Now I understand it as just not rushing and giving every note the space to breathe. But I think what
is also important is to get an innate understanding of the piece, to really feel it on a personal level, as my teacher says, to connect with the music
behind the notes.
I am a little unsure of what you mean by the high/low question answer parts. Are some of the phrases implied as being 'in response' to others? If that
is the case it would be a lot easier to show an understanding of the piece's dynamics. |
Somehow my reply did not show up. I'll try again. Apologies if two similar replies appear on the forum.
The questions you have asked of Brian will be answered in full if you listen to skillful performances of this samai. Ensemble renditions will make the
question/answer component of the 4th khana as clear as can be. Both solo and ensemble renditions will make the concept of flow clear (it's not just
not rushing) if you listen actively, as if you were playing. And also do play along.
Your reference to letting each note breathe points the way to attaining musical flow. Your own personal breathing (the kind involving lungs and
oxygen) will "flow" better if you relax your grip on the fingerboard. And if you remember to desist from Not Breathing your grip on the fingerboard
will naturally relax.
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Lysander
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Sorry for the delay, but here is the Haydar piece. This was the first take and has some errors, mostly tempo because I seemed to lose concentration
and start thinking about other things. I notice this is something that doesn't happen often if one is more relaxed. Jody, on that note, and about
breathing, this may sound like an odd question but when does one breathe? If I concentrate on breathing and playing then playing becomes a bit more
difficult! So maybe it should be before, or I should just think about slowing down overall?
It's another bare bones version for now. In a month or so I'll try to upload ones with more ornamentation. To be honest I find the bare bones ones
more difficult.
https://youtu.be/ifqfeEQxADo
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Jody Stecher
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Deliberate breathing can cause problems, as you have seen. What I advised was to remember to desist from NOT breathing. Breathe normally. Your body
already knows how to breathe. What I meant was "don't interfere with natural breathing by holding your breath". By simply knowing that you sometimes
hold your breath, that knowing can become an awareness during oud playing, and that awareness will discover those times you are not breathing. As
soon as you become aware that you were holding your breath your natural breathing will resume.
I watched the video. Your former death grip on the fingerboard has lightened up. You can lighten up further but progress has been made. Your right
hand now needs attention. You are playing many or maybe *all* passages of sixteenth notes (semiquavers) beginning with an upstroke. This is not
serving the music well.
Instead of
up down/ up down/ up down/ up down
try
down/up down/up down/up down/up
For instance in the second measure of the teslim we have a quarter note (crotchet), 2 sixteenth notes ( semiquavers) , a dotted eight (quaver), a
sixteenth (semiquaver) and then eight sixteenth notes (semiquavers) and a final eighth note (quaver).
Your right hand plays the first four notes as all down strokes. It might go better as Down Down Up Down. But it's ok. It sounds bold and adamant
as all downstrokes. But now comes the trouble. You've got nine semiquavers to play before the final quaver. Instead of treating the note following
the dotted quaver as a pickup to a string of eight semiquavers you are playing it as if it was the downbeat and therefore starting with a down stroke
and playing alternating strokes thereafter. so the whole string of semiquavers is being played backwards stoke-wise. It would sound better if you
played the pickup with an upstroke and then played four pairs of down/up before ending on a final downstroke on beat 10. I hope this is clear.
This was just an example. You downs and ups are often reversed throughout the video. I don't mean to say that the player has no freedom or options in
the right hand. But for passages of rapid notes of equal duration down/up works better than up/down. String crossings will sometimes necessitate an
occasional change to this, especially if a player is of the Downstroke On A New String school, but even there rapid passages are not played by means
of pairs of up/down. Down/up is the way to go.
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Lysander
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Jody, thank you for your advice and sorry it's taken me long to reply. At my oud teacher's today is seems he has changed his mind - he says two samais
would be two much! He has recommended that I do the Bayat Samai and Longa Yorgo! Well, I don't mind doing the Longa Yorgo, it's a piece I have known
for a while now. However, he says the pieces should have no ornamentation [maybe just a tiny bit of tremolo I seem to be able to get away with]. I
thought this would be rather boring for the audience but he seems to think ornamentation is not necessary. I will upload a video of the Longa if
anyone is interested. Apart from that I seem to have to work on my bare bones pieces! But I already know them... so I suppose I should just
concentrate on releasing the Vulcan death grip a bit more...
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Lysander
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I just wanted to add a quick note of thanks to Brian and Jody, and to the forum in general for all the help given. I received a distinction in my
performance and in the degree. So many things contributed towards it, and the advice you gave and the time you took to help me is included. Thank you
so much. Onwards to PhD now [for the record, the performance was Longa Yorga, taqsim in Bayat sol, Farahfaza samai and Flying Bird].
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John Erlich
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Hi Lysander,
Thanks for the follow up post; glad to hear all went well. There is one piece of advice I wanted to share, based on my experience with my own
teaching. Looking at the one bar you posted from the Bayati samai, I have often had good results helping my student to grasp rhythmically complex
passages (or those just "dense" with notes) by re-writing those passages with the value of all of the notes doubled, i.e., half-notes become whole
notes, thirty-second notes become sixteenth notes, etc.
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