Guitarune
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-15-2021
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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Hello!
Hi there!
I suddenly decided to get myself an oud. I'm a musician (guitar and various other stringed instruments) but never tried ouds as they are not readily
available in my country.
Got my first one some days ago, but unfortunately it goes straight back. Neither sound nor playability was good enough. Upped the spending amount and
have a different one on the way from Sala Muzik right now. Fingers crossed!
But I have forum related question...Has this place been on an un-secure server for long? I'm not all that comfortable hanging around on servers that
are not secure 
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1373
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
Member Is Offline
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Ever since Web Browsers began to post the Not Secure notice this forum has said Not Secure. Sometimes that means a site is not secure. Sometimes it
means that someone at the server end has not updated the notice. I don't know what it means here.
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alim
Oud Junkie
Posts: 154
Registered: 5-25-2004
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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It is (rightly) flagged as 'Not Secure' because the site uses http (not https) which is inherently insecure. I tried https but is looks like this site
does not support it.
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/post.php?action=reply&fid=14&tid=18778
Cheers,
Ali-
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Guitarune
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-15-2021
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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Yeah, guess it's ok as long as one is aware, and use a password that only applies here 
I got the oud from Sala Muzik by the way. No luck  The fretboard changes angle at
the neck joint so it is not playable beyond that point... Not sure what to do about that. Ask them for a replacement and that they make sure the neck
is straight, or shop from elsewhere? I know a lot about acoustic guitars, but little about ouds and their makers.
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coolsciguy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 249
Registered: 5-14-2020
Location: Washington D.C.
Member Is Offline
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Quote: Originally posted by Guitarune  |
Yeah, guess it's ok as long as one is aware, and use a password that only applies here
I got the oud from Sala Muzik by the way. No luck The fretboard changes angle at
the neck joint so it is not playable beyond that point... Not sure what to do about that. Ask them for a replacement and that they make sure the neck
is straight, or shop from elsewhere? I know a lot about acoustic guitars, but little about ouds and their makers. |
Send a link to the oud you bought. Sala has a variety of ouds, some are more reliable than other. Zeryab ouds are more or less a safe bet should you
decide to get a replacement.
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Guitarune
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-15-2021
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy |
Send a link to the oud you bought. Sala has a variety of ouds, some are more reliable than other. Zeryab ouds are more or less a safe bet should you
decide to get a replacement. |
I got this one: AAOK-310G
The neck itself seems reasonably straight, and the action at the joint is 3+ mm. Just a bit more than I'd like. But the fretboard angles down with the
top of the body so the action is 8 mm towards the end of the fretboard.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1373
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
Member Is Offline
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What I think I am seeing in the photo seems impossibly bizarre. Can you post another photo that shows the entire top of the oud? I can't quite work
out what I am actually seeing.
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coolsciguy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 249
Registered: 5-14-2020
Location: Washington D.C.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Guitarune | | Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy |
Send a link to the oud you bought. Sala has a variety of ouds, some are more reliable than other. Zeryab ouds are more or less a safe bet should you
decide to get a replacement. |
I got this one: AAOK-310G
The neck itself seems reasonably straight, and the action at the joint is 3+ mm. Just a bit more than I'd like. But the fretboard angles down with the
top of the body so the action is 8 mm towards the end of the fretboard.
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Other folks can correct me, but not the whole fret board is entirely "playable". The better sounding section of the oud is from the nut to the joint.
from the joint onwards sound loses clarity; from joint halfway to the sound hole is still playable. All ouds have high action (7-8 mm) at the bridge,
whith action gradually getting shorter moving closer to the nut.
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Jody Stecher
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1373
Registered: 11-5-2011
Location: California
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy |
[/ rquote]
Other folks can correct me, but not the whole fret board is entirely "playable". The better sounding section of the oud is from the nut to the joint.
from the joint onwards sound loses clarity; from joint halfway to the sound hole is still playable. All ouds have high action (7-8 mm) at the bridge,
whith action gradually getting shorter moving closer to the nut. |
The strings of a typical plucked string instrument, including a typical oud, produce a thick muted sound as the vibrating length shortens (as the
player fingers higher up the fingerboard). As you say, a typical oud sounds clear up until the neck/body joint. I have an excellent oud from the shop
of Faruk Turunz which sounds clear on each string right to the high end of the fingerboard. It was designed to do that. But that is an exceptional
situation. But there seems to be a bizarre construction problem in this Sala oud. The photo suggests that the fingerboard makes a left turn!! I'm
probably misinterpreting the photo. I hope so!
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sylvainbd
Oud Junkie
Posts: 404
Registered: 6-7-2005
Location: France - Nantes
Member Is Offline
Mood: Sylent
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Most of industrial acoustic oud have 2 angles on fingerboard. First one until the fifth. Action at this point must be 3mm max indeed. Then between
fifth until octave have bigger angle. Because most part of repertory in oud music is played on the first neck part ... So from my point of view that
is not awesome but that is correct.
But indeed an oud with flat fingerboard is very handy to play. Oud maker as professionnel luthier make it like that.
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Guitarune
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-15-2021
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jody Stecher | | Quote: Originally posted by coolsciguy |
Other folks can correct me, but not the whole fret board is entirely "playable". The better sounding section of the oud is from the nut to the joint.
from the joint onwards sound loses clarity; from joint halfway to the sound hole is still playable. All ouds have high action (7-8 mm) at the bridge,
whith action gradually getting shorter moving closer to the nut. |
The strings of a typical plucked string instrument, including a typical oud, produce a thick muted sound as the vibrating length shortens (as the
player fingers higher up the fingerboard). As you say, a typical oud sounds clear up until the neck/body joint. I have an excellent oud from the shop
of Faruk Turunz which sounds clear on each string right to the high end of the fingerboard. It was designed to do that. But that is an exceptional
situation. But there seems to be a bizarre construction problem in this Sala oud. The photo suggests that the fingerboard makes a left turn!! I'm
probably misinterpreting the photo. I hope so! |
Ah, no it's not making a left turn  It just sinks with the top.
Action at the bridge is 12 mm, which becomes 8 mm when reaching the fretboard. But the action is almost tripling from the neck joint to the end of the
fretboard.
If this is acceptable on an oud, I'll also accept that :-)
How is the top of an oud supposed to be? Straight, slightly upward, sinking? On a healthy guitar, slightly upwards bow is normal. On this oud the top
sinks quite a bit. That's ok? I just want to make sure that this oud will survive in the future, since as a guitarist I'm a bit scared by the sinking
top and fretboard change
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coolsciguy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 249
Registered: 5-14-2020
Location: Washington D.C.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Guitarune |
Ah, no it's not making a left turn It just sinks with the top.
Action at the bridge is 12 mm, which becomes 8 mm when reaching the fretboard. But the action is almost tripling from the neck joint to the end of the
fretboard.
If this is acceptable on an oud, I'll also accept that :-)
How is the top of an oud supposed to be? Straight, slightly upward, sinking? On a healthy guitar, slightly upwards bow is normal. On this oud the top
sinks quite a bit. That's ok? I just want to make sure that this oud will survive in the future, since as a guitarist I'm a bit scared by the sinking
top and fretboard change
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I think what you are saying is that your soundboard sinks around the sound hole/end of fret board which is giving you high action in that area. Can't
say if this is by design or a flaw. I owned one beginner Turkish spruce top oud which was like that. My Arabic cedar top oud isn't. There is a lot of
variation in bracing the sound board which causes such behavior. Also, depending on your tuning and strings, you may be putting too much pressure on
the soundboard.
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
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It's common to see sunken tops on ouds over time but it isn't desirable and shouldn't be expected on a new instrument. It looks like the neck angle
is steeper than would be expected on an oud and the bridge is probably higher than usual to compensate.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jason | | It's common to see sunken tops on ouds over time but it isn't desirable and shouldn't be expected on a new instrument. It looks like the neck angle
is steeper than would be expected on an oud and the bridge is probably higher than usual to compensate. |
100%
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Guitarune
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-15-2021
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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I'm measuring a bit...
Are ouds, or some ouds, designed with a curved top frame? Meaning that if one laid the oud face down before the top is mounted, it would not be flush
with the floor?
Seems like that is the case here. I measured with a string from beside the neck joint (A) and down the length of the top to the bottom (B)(not quite
to the bottom obviously, since I have to string beside the bridge).
In the middle (C), the top was about 7 mm down. See attached pic.
When measuring with a string across the top from side to side, the top is 3-4 mm down. So not quite the same....
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
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No, oud tops are planed flat before pairing with the bowl. It is common for the top to sink over time but that typically takes several years if it
happens and ouds are never built that way from the beginning.
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Guitarune
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-15-2021
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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Hm...not sure what to do about this. It's such a hassle to export for an exchange, apply for VAT refund etc etc...
I could live with it as is, with my own slight adjustments, but if the top is likely going to give me problems down the line I dunno...
Btw, this one has guitar tuning gears. Easier for a starter like me. But they are put on the wrong way 
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving my oud
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If it is an expensive instrument I might consider going through the hassle of returning it. If this is more of just something to learn on it may
still serve it's purpose. Most oud repertoire is played below the neck joint so if playability in that region of the instrument is okay then you
should be able to still play most things. You could always contact Sala and see if they'd give you a partial refund or help pay for a repair if
you're in a country with luthiers familiar with ouds.
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Guitarune
Oud Lover
Posts: 22
Registered: 8-15-2021
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Jason | | If it is an expensive instrument I might consider going through the hassle of returning it. If this is more of just something to learn on it may
still serve it's purpose. Most oud repertoire is played below the neck joint so if playability in that region of the instrument is okay then you
should be able to still play most things. You could always contact Sala and see if they'd give you a partial refund or help pay for a repair if
you're in a country with luthiers familiar with ouds. |
With discount it was $630
I can make some slight adjustments myself and it will absolutely be fine on the neck itself. It's about 3+ mm on the high string at the joint. I could
get it down to slightly less than 3 I guess, which I think is better.
Unless a sinking top on a new oud is bound to give me trouble further down the road, that is...?
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Member Is Offline
Mood: Stringish
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Some ouds are intentionally built with a bit of relief in the face, or so I've been told. But this is too much, and the relief shouldn't extend to
the fingerboard (only between the soundhole and bridge). But as others have noted, almost all of the playing on oud will be between the open strings
and the neck joint. Traditionally, the usable register was 2 octaves, from the 5th course to about the neck-body joint on the first string (give or
take about a step). All of the traditional repertoire is played within this range.
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coolsciguy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 249
Registered: 5-14-2020
Location: Washington D.C.
Member Is Offline
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| Quote: Originally posted by Guitarune |
Hm...not sure what to do about this. It's such a hassle to export for an exchange, apply for VAT refund etc etc...
I could live with it as is, with my own slight adjustments, but if the top is likely going to give me problems down the line I dunno...
Btw, this one has guitar tuning gears. Easier for a starter like me. But they are put on the wrong way |
I'd suggest you return or substitute it at least. I had a similar experience and regretted not returning it. $700 is too much for a defective oud. Get
a Syrian oud next for a safer bet.
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Badra
Oud Maniac
Posts: 99
Registered: 2-26-2006
Location: NW USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Regarding secure server, it used to be a complicated thing back in the days when this site was created. Today, admin just needs to call host and say
make it secure, and they flip a switch. I'm personally thrilled this place still exists, a themed website, with a discussion forum, not inundated
with ads and friend suggestions.
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