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Greg
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Registered: 7-22-2004
Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Faruk Türünz Specialised Tools
In early November, I ordered an oud from Faruk Türünz.
It is now finished and I expect to receive it within the next couple of weeks. It has been an absolute delight to do business with Mr Türünz; he has
been very patient and helpful during the whole process.
In consultation, I eventually decided on 25 staves of a highly figured wood callled pommele (a kind of Mahogany) with maple purfling. I will post
pictures when available, but I have seen some "under construction" shots and it looks great. I am confident it will sound just as good.
During the process, Mr Türünz sent me some photos of some of the special tools he and his apprentice use in the building process. I include the
photos here, as I know they will be of interest, in particular, to Richard and Jameel (and of course Jonathan ;-).
These tools and jigs were all designed and made by an engineer colleague of Mr Türünz.
Best regards,
Greg
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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Thanks for posting these, Greg.
Farouk sent me some of his jig photos a couple years ago, and I'm attaching them here. But this is a greater collection for sure. For more production
runs, these jigs and fixtures definitely speed up the process. They look like more like jigs that would be used for assembling aircraft parts, or some
other high-tech application. I'd love to have a jig that would bend ribs (I'm actually working on one), but anything beyond that wouldn't justify the
time-savings when making say, one oud per year. There are those that think power-tools have a limited role in oud-making. I respectfully disagree. I
think if a joint or part can be made more accurately with a power tool, then all the better. It's only when power tools cause the luthier to depart
from a standard that their use becomes detrimental. One example I can think of is in the moulding industry. After the implementation of rotary cutters
(shapers or routers), certain classic profiles which could only be cut with moulding planes, were no longer produced. Many period profiles cannot be
duplicated with rotary cutters because they cannot cut beyond the arc of their motion (always a circle) without wasting material, this is why modern
mouldings utilize more sterile circular designs, while classic mouldings use ellipses and the like.
Please post some pics and sound samples of your new oud when you get a chance.
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Wm. De Leonardis
Oud Maniac
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Here are a two pictures that Faruk sent me of my oud being built. I thought they would be of interest here since they show the mould he uses--it
appears to be made of plastic!
William
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Wm. De Leonardis
Oud Maniac
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Location: Knoxville, TN
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Next one
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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I for one object to the use of power tools to build what should be an artistic object. I find myself in a "zone" working with chisels and knives but
when using power tools my main thoiught is how to avoid injury or damage to the material. Then there's the limitations Jameel pointed out in
mouldings. There are limitations on all machine movements, causing the result to look machine made. The perfection and symmetry production by machines
is a detriment to the instrument for me. I prefer the slightly lopsided and variable appearance of a hand fiormed and cut piece of work. It has soul
that is lost when a motor does the cutting. The time it takes to produce jigs and fixtures is lost unless you're in high production mode. So how many
ouds can you sell? Not enough to justify the time and expense of fixturing and powering the parts, I bet. I would like to see a rib bender, though....
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Jonathan
Oud Junkie
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Guitar side rib benders are so common, its hard to believe that nobody has made on for ouds yet. Any thoughts on Turunz's mould? The idea seems
pretty interesting to me. No real access from underneath but it seems like it could help in fine tuning the shape a bit. I wonder what it is made
out of.
I love pics like these. You really learn a lot about the different approaches. And I love the fact that oudmakers aren't so secretive of their
techniques.
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SamirCanada
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Maybe the material used for his mould doesnt stick to glue to easy?
Just a thought. Since it would be tricky to use when glueing.
UNLESS! he uses 2 moulds one to glue on and this one to check each ribs more precicely.
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Greg
Administrator
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Richard,
Are you saying you object to the use of bandsaw and post-drill? As far as I can see, they are the only two powered tools shown in any of the above
pictures?
I am not a craftsman and therefore have little knowledge of the instrument building process, but i would have though that the use of precision jigs
could only aid in the process of building an instrument to desired specifications. Without such precision would not the end result be more a matter of
luck than good design?
Regards,
Greg
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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Perfection and Symmetry
These two qualities invite each other and are obviously divine peculiarities. An objection to these qualities can only be understood in the context of
humanly inability otherwise “detriment to the instrument” stays as a very subjective assertion. Since 1984 I have been building ouds and since
1997 I have started to use these tools. Yurdal Tokcan still plays one of my ouds which I made for him in 1992. Like this one none of my ouds had any
“…slightly lopsided and variable appearance of a hand formed and cut piece of work”. So all of my ouds both pre-tooled ones and the present
samples have the same perfect features to cause Dr. Oud blame all as having detrimental characteristics. Dr. Oud never misses any opportunity to
object “slightly” to any of my contributions to the “Oud World”. However all of these contributions can help to elevate the total profit for
sake of the Oud. Nevertheless all objections based on subjective or objective reasons help us to judge the issue once more.
With all my respect,
Faruk
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
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I'd like to dispell the notion that doing something entirely by hand somehow gurantees that it can't be symmetrical or excecuted to the degree that it
can be described as "perfect" (which I interpret to mean meeting the builder's specifications and expectations to his full satisfaction). Quite the
contrary. Richard likes his ouds to be a bit off-symmetry, slightly lopsided as he says. That is his style, he has his reasons for building this way,
but I disagree that doing the work by hand somehow automatically imparts this character to a piece of work. (Incidentally, I don't think Richard has a
problem with using power tools to the grunt work of oud building: resawing ribs, drilling holes, etc.) Hamza El Din's Abdo Nahat was built without the
aid of power tools. It's about as perfect as they get, as well as Al Gardner's Nahat. Nothing lopsided there. Look at the furniture produced by early
American cabinetmaker Duncan Phyfe. No power tools, yet his work is delicate and flawless. I could come up with dozens of examples. I think the
problem with power tools and ouds comes into play when, for example, a power tool is used to perform a task that would be less accurate, but faster
than if performed by hand. Faruk's jigs are tools that allow him to create a part to his specs, with speed, accuracy and repeatability. This perhaps
forces a certain design to be repeated and doesn't allow for flexibility in design (other jigs can be built of course) but it doesn't necessarily have
to compromise quality. There isn't one single aspect of ouds I've built that I've compromised on design because of a power tool's limitation. Quite
the contrary, I've used power tools to enhance the accuracy of my work. I think also that this discussion should be make more precise by not using the
term power tool to include jigs and fixtures, since some of Faruk's jigs have no relationship to power tools, such as the bending clamps. Actually,
I'd be interested to know what a lot of these jigs and fixtures peform, if Faruk would be kind enough to explain some of them.
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sydney
Oud Junkie
Posts: 579
Registered: 12-9-2003
Location: Down Under
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Oud Making
I like to share my respect and admiration for the of the jigs and fixtures that Master Farouk made with creativity.
I can still sense between the lines of what Dr.Oud is saying ... That the word "Hand Made" may no longer mean the same after using jigs and fixtures
but of course since the oud maker is the one who came up with those jigs and fixtures then the oud is still a hand made.
Would any oud buyer fasinated about a hand made oud understand the difference between an oud made using jigs and fixtures and another made without
them?
Greg,
I can not wait to listen to your new Turunz oud.
Congratulations haboub.
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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Dr. Oud
Oud Junkie
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Location: Sacramento, CA, USA
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Greg
Richard,
Are you saying you object to the use of bandsaw and post-drill? As far as I can see, they are the only two powered tools shown in any of the above
pictures?
I am not a craftsman and therefore have little knowledge of the instrument building process, but i would have though that the use of precision jigs
could only aid in the process of building an instrument to desired specifications. Without such precision would not the end result be more a matter of
luck than good design?
Regards,
Greg |
I was referring to the complete set of jigs and fixtures displayed in previous postings. I don't believe that jigs and fiztures enhace precision, but
rather the speed of production. I use power tools myself of course, to do the rough cutting and shaping, so I'm violating my own objections, in a way,
I suppose. Precision can be achieved by hand as the result of skill. Design can determine the characteristics of the instrument. The quality of tone
of the instrument is a matter of luck.
I don't object to contributions to the oud world that improve the instrument. Jigs and fixtures and power tools are variations in the process of
building the instrument, not necessarily an improvement in the instrument itself. Instruments have been made with precision way before the machine age
which brought about a change in the way to do things. I simply prefer to work as much as possible as close to the material as I can. It is a different
skill set and one I aspire to because of the creative feedback I enjoy. Perhaps I believe that as the factory process creeps in, the art process seeps
out. You can buy art produced in factories, or buy art on the corner from the artist. which is better? You'll have to decide that for yourself.
Boy, this one sure ruffled some feathers, huh?
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 582
Registered: 4-9-2004
Location: Kansas
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The are plenty of Khalifeh and tourist handmade ouds out there and they sort of speak for themselves there.
I think ouds mass built by a master maker using jigs and fixtures are by far superior to ouds mass produced in a factory by a bunch of whoevers
without any jigs and with dull tools where measurements and positions are eye-balled and then a label is glued on the inside.
From the point of view of improving a process, I believe that accurate and clean fixtures as well as precise and sharp power tools and calibrated
measuring tools are very much desired since they would be the first step in controlling variability and optimizing repeatability.
Just because of using jigs and power tools doesn't make the product good or bad, it is still the craft hood of the user. However, I cannot help it
but argue that with proper use of fixtures and power tools it makes it easier and more consistent in producing a good product.
While on the subject of to hand-make or not to hand-make, it would be interesting to build and oud mostly using CNC MCs!
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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About some life experiences of an oud maker
An Anecdote
After one of my workshops which had taken place within an international oud meeting a young man approached with an oud in hand and said he had wanted
to show it to me. I promptly recognized that gentleman: He had visited my studio in Istanbul some times ago and brought a lute to show to me. Some one
accompanying to him asked in a loud voice, if I had liked the oud. I said “yes! Of course I like it. It is a very good oud!” He said “OK thank
you! I was pondering about asking you if you could build an oud for me. As far as you say this maker is a good one and this oud is a good oud I
changed my mind. I will want him to build an oud for me". This conversation was heard by the other bystanders. One of them pulled me to the corner and
said “You should not say that you liked it. You are a very well known master oud maker. Now many people will hear that you liked and praised that
maker’s oud and he will be a rival of you”. I was there to share my experiences and some one was looking forward to finding an opportunity to make
me approve his work. I still have sympathy to that young and talented instrument maker and I have never regretted for what I had done. His
handcraftsmanship was remarkably good and clean and the sound of his oud was good enough. Everywhere and every time there are bystanders around and
being aware of my role I always say the truth and show respect to those who are trying to make good things.
A little note: The words “factory” and “to manufacture” are related words but their connotations are quite far from each other’s. The words
“equity” and “devoted” may seem disinterested two but they are related if used to indicate some related qualities of the same person!
With all my respects,
Faruk
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sydney
Oud Junkie
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You never know Elie
| Quote: | Originally posted by Elie Riachi
While on the subject of to hand-make or not to hand-make, it would be interesting to build and oud mostly using CNC MCs! |
Just as we see Guitiars made of plastice and sold for kids maybe someone will make a mould (Tool) to make a full oud one day - something simillar to
Master Farouk's mould.
Actually this idea would be perfect for mass production of electric ouds.
CNC or "Computer numerical controls"- with a 3 axis machine I guess you can make all parts of the oud (will end up cheep with quantity) but not the
bowl unless it is going to be made out of a block of wood not ribs. And it will be very expensive.
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 582
Registered: 4-9-2004
Location: Kansas
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I am thinking the ribs for the bowl could be cut at the required curvature. The scrap blocks at both ends would not get wasted either since the would
go in making the peg box. I am talking about a machining center, a combination mill/lathe with turn and swivle work table so it would have 5 and
possibly 6 axes plus the lathe head... No plastic molding.
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sydney
Oud Junkie
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Location: Down Under
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| Quote: | Originally posted by Elie Riachi
I am thinking the ribs for the bowl could be cut at the required curvature. The scrap blocks at both ends would not get wasted either since the would
go in making the peg box. I am talking about a machining center, a combination mill/lathe with turn and swivle work table so it would have 5 and
possibly 6 axes plus the lathe head... No plastic molding. |
Okay Elie,
I am putting my first order 
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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The Mould
| Quote: | Originally posted by Wm. De Leonardis
Here are a two pictures that Faruk sent me of my oud being built. I thought they would be of interest here since they show the mould he uses--it
appears to be made of plastic!
William |
William excuse me please. I could not take the photo promptly to show the inside of that mould. Any way this delay helped in a very positive
direction! Some of dear friends developed many super innovative thoughts for oud production prosesses, techniques and materials. It is my personal
fault to presume people to perceive the intelligence which might have created a complete system for oud constructing process including a revolutionary
soundboard design method besides this poor maker's ability to display the real faces back of the gleaming masks. First of course, I shouldn't assume
them to guess the philosophy beyond a massive mould and the real material, that thing could have been done from. This must not be a forum of prejudice
and slander of course and I had really no idea about it untill some times ago.
Warm regards,
Faruk
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sydney
Oud Junkie
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Questions to Master Farouk
Hello Master Farouk,
I thank you for sharing all your tools photos with us. I hope my post to Elie about the CNC did not offend you in any way. It's always nice to dream
with these days Hi-tech.
My questions to you is ... It looks to me like you have used laser cutting in some parts of your jigs - correct?
Did you design them your self?
What roll did your engineer friend take in this please?
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
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| Quote: | My questions to you is ... It looks to me like you have used laser cutting in some parts of your jigs - correct?
Did you design them your self?
What roll did your engineer friend take in this please? |
Hello Sydney, I wish it could have been realized and all the ouds could be produced on CNC systems. Then we all would freeze in fornt of this hi-tech
and the system of course would leave no place to non of us to be able to buy and sell those instruments because they (the mass producers) would have
no mercy towards little merchants. Finally a SUPER-OUD-PRODUCER's forum would take its position in this field, no any other oud forums could compete
with it and I would decide to get retired like all my colleagues all over the world. It is the scene which George Orwell had missed in his "1984"
As for the other question: My partner Suat is a real genius on designing special tools and making them in this shop. We always complete each other
having the advantage of reciprocal trust and respect. It is a big synergy. I dream a tool which may ease any process, tell him and wait. In a few
minutes he imagines the shape and the functioning parts of that tool, draws it on a paper and starts to tell about how it will work. He waits for my
approval and we decide together for the timing of the making process. We have not used any hi-tech machine nor had any parts of the jigs cut by
laser.
Warm regards,
Faruk
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sydney
Oud Junkie
Posts: 579
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Location: Down Under
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Thank you
for your reply ... 
I do not think you have anything to worry about. Your name is well known to those who want top of the range oud.
Even though there are lots of a hi-tech hair shavers in the market today, we still go to the hair dresser. I do not mean to compare but I am sure you
understand what I mean.
I can not wait for Greg to receive his new oud - I will fly from Sydney to Brisbane specially to see Greg and to play it.
Stay well.
Kind Regards,
------------------
Emad
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farukturunz
Oud Junkie
Posts: 569
Registered: 8-16-2005
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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OK Sydney we are all in the same boat. Some are captain, some passengers, some hawsers, some cooks, and etc. but there are others in the other boats:
Yamaha and Fender and the others for instance. Their customers, many of them great artists, great composers and players. My appearent aim is to
contribute very little to the efforts to exalt the Oud instrument all together with its cultural environment to the level worthy of its nobility.
With my deepest respects.
Faruk
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Elie Riachi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 582
Registered: 4-9-2004
Location: Kansas
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Mood: Gebran Tueni Lives For Ever, 12-12-05.
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Hi all,
My remark regarding CNC-MC in oud making was not to mean that the human factor is removed, an operator would still have to mount the parts on the
machine properly. Also, a human is required to do some assembly.
Anyway there isn't enough demand for ouds to be made this way and even if there were a pure CNC approach may not be the best or practical since
certain tasks are better performed by other processes.
But Emad from Sydney, if I get a million orders you shall be the first on the list
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Wm. De Leonardis
Oud Maniac
Posts: 50
Registered: 1-9-2004
Location: Knoxville, TN
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Mood: AOK
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Greg,
It must be incredibly hard to wait until your oud arrives. I know it was for me. I think you're going to be very please with both the construction and
sound of your new instrument. I can’t wait to see pictures!
Faruk,
Thank you for sharing pictures of your incredible jigs. This forum is very lucky to have your contributions—along with all of the other
professionals who post.
William
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Mike
Super Administrator
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from these pictures, i think it is safe to say that Usta Turunz is truly innovative. and we already know he is highly respected when it comes to the
oudmaking world (and probably the best dressed oudmaker too) William, i agree
with you...we are lucky to have his contributions. i can't wait to see and hear your new oud too Greg. mabrouk in advance bud.
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