mercm525i
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 12-18-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: mnee7
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i have an announcement
guys, i think i've come to a conclusion, i suck at oud. I have this gay book "the oud" which doesn't make any sense and gives no
satisfaction. I've tried it all by ear and it doesn't satisfy me. It's only been about a month, but all i do is play the same notes. I
listen to farido all the time, but my hand doesn't pick anything good to play. Any suggestions?
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
Posts: 789
Registered: 3-17-2003
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving the Oud
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A month? Learning by ear takes a long long long time. I think that's why people opt to learn by reading music. I am learning by ear because it
gives you more satisfaction when you figure the piece out yourself. I've been playing for... I think a year coming this May (?) and I feel like
I'm getting better by learning from ear. Just stick with it.
The first song I learned by ear was Abdel Wahab's Azziza. It took me nearly a month and a half, I think. Just don't give up. By the way,
Farid's things are not such a good thing to start with. He's very advanced. I asked a professional singer to sing a piece for Farid (and
this guy is really, really, really good at singing) and he said it was too difficult because Farid's things are quite complicated.
All I can tell you at this point is not to give up. I'm not familiar with the book you have, but try not to make it a school thing where you have
to read a book to learn. I'm sure others here can advise you better. This is just my opinion.
I'm sure most of the people here will tell you to start with doulabs and samais. By all means, do that.
Good luck to you, and I hope you haven't totally given up. We were all there in the beginning (heck, I'm still there!  )
TP21
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
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Mood: big band envy
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My friend, believe me you will be a great oud player if you take some time now and work on some simple exercises and songs.
Start by practicing the major scale in the keys of C, D, G, Bflat, Eflat, and F (I'm assuming you are in the Arabic tuning). As you play each
note, try singing the name of the note, helping you learn the notes on the fingerboard and the intervals you're hearing. As you become more
comfortable, practice some simple songs in the makam Ajam for example. Try Ya Ghzayel and Zorouni on for size, and don't forget to look at
instructional videos page on this site.
As you've become more comfortable with Ajam and major, move on to minor, practicing in various keys on the oud. When you feel comfortable,
practice some songs in the makam Nahawand. Just keep progressing and working at it, and you'll be fine. Everyone has a certain amount of
talent, but nobody can become a good musician without putting in some work.
Continue to learn songs in various makams, but always focusing on one makam at a time. This helps you concentrate on your notes and is less confusing
I think. And don't forget to always be listening to the master players for inspiration.
You'll see that with some patience and persistence, you will progress and be very happy with yourself.
Take care,
mavrothis
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mercm525i
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 12-18-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: mnee7
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im def not gonna give up. It's just upsetting, and you're right when u figure it out by ear its much more satisfying. I never learn music by
notes or books. I like to do it on my own. I have an arabic keyboard which ive been playing since i was 5, all by ear, and the guitar since last year
all by ear. But the oud i must say is the hardest one i've tried but my favorite. Tell me if im doing this wrong or not but, when you guys say to
try these notes, i really dont know the notes on the oud, i just pluck until it sounds the same, what do you suggest?
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mavrothis
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1674
Registered: 6-5-2003
Location: NJ/NYC
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Mood: big band envy
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It might not be important for you to read music now, but I think you should at least learn the names of the notes and their position on the
fingerboard. Your third string for example is D. Start from there and find all the notes on the fingerboard going up and down.
This sort of thing will make you much more comfortable as you progress.
mav
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
Posts: 789
Registered: 3-17-2003
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving the Oud
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I think it would behoove you to learn the notes of the oud. Even though I can't read the sheet music, I still know where Do, Re, Mi, etc. etc. is
on the oud. What is the tuning of your oud? Maybe we can explain to you where everything is based on that. I'm sure you can find the tuning
easily if you've played keyboard, since they're all at whole notes, I'm assuming.
I tune CFADGC. It's possible that you tune to the same, or GADGC. Just lemme know and I'll do my best to help. That's what I'm
here for (well, that and also to sponge off of oud guru's live Mavro over here ).
TP21
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mercm525i
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 12-18-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: mnee7
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i have it tuned to CGADGC, whats the tuning people usually do for arabic, maybe its my tuning thats making it hard to make something sound good.
Another question, how do i know which CGADGC i want, the low tone ones/lower octaves (on the keyboard) or the higher octave ones, which one is the
standard, how would one know something like this?
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
Posts: 789
Registered: 3-17-2003
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving the Oud
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I wish I could describe it to you clearly, as in "Oh, in CGADGC, the last C is tuned to middle C on the keyboard." It could very well be that, but I
have no clue. The way I got it is by listening to Farid's taqsim.
http://www.mikeouds.com/audio/farido1.mp3
That's the one. Right at 3:54, he starts doing his crazy moves. The highest sound you hear (the constant tremolo in the back) is tuned to the C that I
was referring to. For ease, I'll write C(1)GADGC(2), or CGADc, where the one he's holding is C(2)/c.
EDITTED 04-13-2005: This was a while back, guys, but I just wanted to get back to it. Farido isn't tuned to C, but is actually tuned lower. (75% of
half a step, to be exact). If you want to play along with Farido, and prefer his tuning, then go right ahead... otherwise, you can e-mail me for the
same taqsim posted above, played by Farido, on the actual C.
I think if you tune a whole octave higher, your strings will bust. If you tune too low, it'll be way too wobbly and loose.
CGADGc, I believe is the more traditional way of tuning. I tune to CFADGc, and our good friend Farid tuned to EADGc (he only had 5 strings, I
believe.)
Do what's comfortable for you. CFADGc is easier for me, but I think that's because that's how I just learned it in the beginning.
Now the process begins...
C(1) or your bass C is simple the open string... on C(1), if you put your finger in the first position, you get C# (also known as Db)... second
position is D... third position is D# (or Eb).... fourth position is E... fifth is F (fifth position kind of deviates from the rest of the flow, in my
opinion, and that's why I tune the next set to F).
So... Open: C... first: C# (or Db)... second: D... third: D# (or Eb)... fourth: E... fifth: F
Open: G... first: G# (or Ab)
Open: A... first: A# (or Bb).... second: B... third: C... fourth: Db (or C#)
Open: D... first: D# (or Eb)... second: E... third: F... fourth: F# (or Gb)
Open: G... first: Ab (or G#)... second: A... third: Bb (or A#)... fourth: B
Open: c... first: C# (or Db)... second: D... third: D# (or Eb)... fourth: E... fifth: F
This is the basic finger position. Don't let it trouble you. It may be an overload the first time you see it.
Now you might ask me... "TP21, what constitutes a position?" Well, I'm not sure if there's an actual way of determining this. If there is, I hope the
people on the forum help me out with describing it. Basically, for now, try to match up the sounds of the notes on your oud with the ones on your
piano. It takes a while (believe me, it really, really does) to know exactly where your finger should go, but don't be discouraged. Once you know
where your fingers go, you've already accomplished a lot.
EDITTED 04-13-2005: Notes can actually be determined mathematically. If you've come across the coma system, you'll see that. As far as Arabic style
goes, it's done by ear. For example, there was a recent post concerning the difference between E half flat in Rast and Bayati, and the answer to the
difference is arbitrary in Arabic music, unless you hear it. In Turkish music, this isn't the case... if you're interested about this, go check that
post out...
Now, here's the beautiful part (as I'm sure you've noticed on your piano). You can transpose the scales on the oud to different notes (I know that you
know this by now, but I'm just reiterating it for the other readers out there who aren't familiar with music).
To learn Ajam and Nahawand, I recommend that you start by learning where they are on your oud.
http://turath.org/Resources/MaqamTrans.htm
Ajam is barely on the top of the page and is easy to miss... if you start from C, it's simply C D E F G A B c. Don't worry yourself with the spacing
between them all yet. Just stick to learning Ajam on C and Nahawand for now.
In the beautiful oud, we also have quarter notes. In the Arabic system, these aren't very well defined, but you can estimate and learn it all by
listening to some songs. That comes later. For now, as Mavro said, stick to Ajam and Nahawand (major and minor, respectively).
I'm sure the others can make some recommendations about which songs you should learn first.
I know the post was long, but I hope it helps. If you have any questions, feel free to ask at any time.
TP21
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TruePharaoh21
Oud Junkie
Posts: 789
Registered: 3-17-2003
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Loving the Oud
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Merc, where'd you post it? If it isn't able to post here, send it to me and I'd be glad to post it for you.
truepharaoh21@yahoo.com
I'm sure it'll sound great.
TP21
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mercm525i
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 12-18-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: mnee7
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ok TP21 i sent you the files can you post them up, I just learned how to play these on my own today. I've been doing it all day so i was
slackening off when i recorded them. The recording quality isnt that good bc i converted from wav to mp3 format. I bought the oud from mid-east.com
for $300, based on the sound u think it was worth it (it doesn't have that buzzing like in the recordings thats just from converting formats)
Thanks.
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mercm525i
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 12-18-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: mnee7
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these are some files of me trying to play mike's instructional video, nahawand doulab, nahawand eskudurra, and my own taqsim.  THESE FILES ONLY OPEN IN WINDOWS SOUND RECORDER)
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mercm525i
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 12-18-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: mnee7
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i dunno how to put all the attachments into one reply so heres the next one
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mercm525i
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 12-18-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: mnee7
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heres the last file, sorry about wasting web space mike, u can take them off whenever
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nadir
Oud Junkie
Posts: 329
Registered: 12-29-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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you play an EXCELLENT taqsim considering that you have only been playing for a month!!!
continue the good work!
- nadir
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mercm525i
Oud Junkie
Posts: 145
Registered: 12-18-2003
Location: USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: mnee7
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thank you very very much man. sometimes i lose my patience but im always drawn back to it. i never get bored of it. thanks
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