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azzizza
Oud Maniac
Posts: 99
Registered: 1-31-2007
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eagle risha
Hi all, Any leads or availability of eagle risha? I remember being in Engin Erogluer's shop in Istanbul with our language gap and i was flapping my
arms like wings to ask if he had any available (he didn't)
Armen
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azzizza
Oud Maniac
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risha
Anyone willing sell me any of their eagle risha? email me at armensevag@comcast.net if so ..thanks
Armen
http://www.aravod.com
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damascene_oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 143
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Location: Damascus
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Hi azzizza,
I think they are extremely rare now adays, not because it's hard to get eagle's feathers, but also because they need a special process that i think
doesn't exist anymore. I use a risha made of sliced bull horn, that i scrub with a file to the desired thicknedd and then i dip it in olive oil for a
week, after that i make final touches to it with the fine file. And it is the best i had known so far.
You never hear the hissing sound of scratch on the strings like other kinds of rishas.
You may want to try those if u can get'em.
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1031
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Hi damascene_oud! I've seen these buffalo rishas on ebay with Nile Shop, are these the type of risha you are talking about? : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2-HandMade-Egyptian-Oud-Pick-Risha-BuffaloHor...
I'd be interested to know where you can purchase the buffalo rishas my friend, or do you have a buffalo in your garden?
I've also heard that eagle risha may tend to wear down quickly, but not having used one I am not sure. got the U2Us, thanks!
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ALAMI
Oud Junkie
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Guys, please leave the eagles alone,
don't be part of "creating demand", hunting eagles is forbidden anywhere. They will tell you "it is from a zoo or we found it in the nature" and
you'll fool yourself into believing, you'll pay 20 dollars for it and that's how "demand" is created.
I have a house in the high mountain in North Lebanon, when I was a kid tens of eagles used to be looping around in the sky, in the last 5 years I
haven't seen a single eagle in this region, they killed them all.
I've tried an eagle risha once, it is honestly not good, very thin and difficult to grab, and if you play hard you'll break it in an hour. I have a
quantity of horn rishas from Aleppo, you have to buy ten to get a decent one (after oil and sanding with 600 then oil then sanding)
The best rishas I've tried were a gift from our friend Jameel specially the one with double thickness: very soft from one side and mid-hard from the
other, you'll find yourself flipping it depending on what you're playing.
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
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I feel similiar to Alami, I don't think my conscience would let me play a decent maqam thinking about how and by what means they got the eagle to
'donate' a risha. I've been using the usual plastic rishas, and haven't tried any of those double thickness ones Jameel had, they sound
interesting.
( later addition) this thread is starting to get very interesting!
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Ronny Andersson
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Eagle rishas of the Iraqi tradition as used by the late Munir Bashir and now his son Omar are stored in oliv oil for 6 months and after that they
won’t split at all (I don’t know how many times I have been writing that here). I am using eagle rishas since very long time and they last very
long time up two 2-3 years and then I play normally for some hours every day if I am in mood for it. But, eagle rishas are best suited for ouds with
lower string tension and this is not a problem on the Bashir oud if you lower the tuning as I do or like Bashir did most of the time. The eagle risha
technique is very different all other material being used for rishas and most players find the eagle risha very difficult to master and believe me I
have seen a lot….Anyway, is offcourse not wise to use feathers from endangered species but they are legal sources such as some taxidermist that
sometimes have a eagle feather. Or like my recent luck when I won a beautiful oud on ¨terrible eBay¨ that came with an old eagle risha!
Best wishes
Ronny
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jdowning
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How are the eagle feathers prepared for use as rishas - apart from soaking in olive oil? I imagine that the end of the quill must be pared or cut down
(like making a quill pen?) - but how is this done exactly?
The use of eagle feathers is, I understand, traditional but what is special about these feathers - are they of particularly large size (and from what
part of the wing of what particular species of eagle)? Or is the use of eagle feathers possibly just a romantic idea - like the oud strings made from
the intestines of a young lion quoted in early Arabic texts? Has anyone tried other kinds of bird feathers? I ask because I have a flock of domestic
geese on my farm and at this time of year they are moulting (naturally discarding their feathers) - so there are large wing feathers lying about all
over the place going to waste. I would be willing to experiment with these feathers if others with more experience in these matters than I think that
this might be a viable alternative source for making rishas.
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LeeVaris
Oud Junkie
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Quills, horn and plastic
Ahh... the endless quest for the perfect risha!
I have been experimenting with different risha for a while now – sort of an excercise in frustration. I had the good fortune to try an eagle risha
once . It belonged to Ghassan Bashir. This was one of the most flexible little rishas I've ever seen - it was like butter! Very thin and flexible yet
strong with a hard surface. I've attempted to make something similar out of goose feathers, pea<b>rooster</b> feathers – probably the
closest I've come to eagle was using turkey feathers BUT it was not very close. In the end I don't think the material is as important as the
technique you use with the specific risha. I really think that you can develop a technique for anything. Hard, soft, flexible, stiff – they all have
their own sound and anything can work with the right technique.
Lately I've been using stiffer risha – my current favorite are the "Mizrite" risha that Jameel has. These are very tough and hold up to heavy use
very well – you can sand them down to very thin or shape them so they are a bit stiffer. I suggest finding a material that sounds good and sticking
with it for a while until you get a good feel for it. Work on developing your technique and don't obsess over some magical material.
Of course... I only advise that because I'm obsessed with trying new risha materials myself. 
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abusin
Oud Junkie
Posts: 442
Registered: 3-23-2006
Location: Manchester England
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Hi all,
Indeed a very interesting topic, well because I am contemplating something similar, or shall I say the same thing! well I agree with Lee Varis in
saying ( I suggest finding a material that sounds good and sticking with it for a while until you get a good feel for it. Work on developing your
technique and don't obsess over some magical material.
But for me the risha is always a headache, and my collection of risha's its ever growing tired every type but never satisfied with sound, but to be
fair some risha's work better than others. and also as Lee mentioned the technique is a big factor and sometimes I watch other people playing using
same risha's I used with great sound.
But as it turned out to be an obsession with risha's for me now, and in my quest for the perfect risha I am going to experiment with new materials I
don't think its been tried before (I haven't heard of anyone using or trying to customise one) so it may turn out to be a new discovery
Right folks, just recently through one of my contacts in Sudan I was introduced to one of the local wildlife officers very helpful guy and very
passionate about his work I really admired his dedication and commitment to what he loves doing best which is the preservation of the wildlife and
care for the animals.
He took me on a safari last year and showed around on of the most beautiful safari parks in the area, man it was the most exciting three days in my
life we spent in the jungle and as wildlife is one of my favourite subjects I really enjoyed it watching animals big and small and being close to them
was awesome.
Sorry back to the subject of risha's, one of the animals I was really fascinated by was the porcupine, especially its defensive techniques by puffing
its quills ready to launch it at its opponent or attacker, and they super sharp like darts and definitely very painful. I asked my friend what are
they I mean are they bone or what so he explained they similar to the feather shaft...
So when I got back to England I thought about the possibility of making a risha out of one using the same technique used for eagle risha's, I also
asked him to fetch me some eagle feathers (but this proved to be a little bit tricky when he asked me what species of eagles am after? as he said they
have a many types of them)?
Right, just last night I phoned him and excitedly said he got me five porcupine quills, and he received a call from a local zoo telling him that they
have eagles in captivity with lots of feathers scattered in the den 
So now we have got the raw materials with no damage to the environment and no suffering caused to any of the animals concerned (this is the first
thing I made sure about, and stressed that this is an experiment and I am not and will not make a profit out of it)
It’s just as well as anyone here I just want to try and see if there is any magic in this.
As soon as I get the materials I will start a thread and work on the project with your help and guidance and any other resources available. And then
we will put them to the test and see the result.
I am very excited about this already guys it will be fun for me and I hope it will be the same for you.
I just googled porcupine quill and it turned out to be a native American thing used in decorations and other things, so this is the first resource I
am going to research for ideas. And if you can come up with anything in regard to the project let me know.
I am expecting the quills anytime within the first two weeks in July, so pray with me they pass the sniffer dogs at the airport.
Best regards to all, and stay tuned
Awad
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oudplayer
Oud Junkie
Posts: 849
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Hey awad
great topic number one,
number 2 awad , when i was hiking in israel 3 days across the country sea to sea , we saw lots and lots of porkiipines. so i was these sharp lil
things and desided to take a 12 of them or a lil more, and thought to my self i will try to make stiff rishis out of them. when i got back to my apt
in israel i started sanding and shaving them down . btw they looked very kool after doing it bc it was a nice color to them .
so when packing to come home i must have left themt here bc i cant find them, but if you loved stiff rishis and play very slow like teckniques wise
these are great and they havea a absalute nice sound i think
"to each its own"
thx sammy
we are lost camels in the desert and wanna find our way to water and the water is in aden
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abusin
Oud Junkie
Posts: 442
Registered: 3-23-2006
Location: Manchester England
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Hi Sammy,
Great to know someone have tried this before, but what I am thinking now is using the same method used with eagle feather, which is soaking in olive
oil for the same duration (six month) to soften them a bit.
Did you soak them or sanded them straight away, will see how this ones will turn out and will keep you all updated.
I am so looking forward to put my hand on them
Cheers,
Awad
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damascene_oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 143
Registered: 4-28-2007
Location: Damascus
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Mood: Obssessed by oud
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Hi Matthew dear,
Those kinds of Bufallo rishas can be found in stores selling oriental instruments namely Qanoon. Generally speaking they are used to play qanoon with,
but can be used for oud also when carefully cut and rasped with a fine file to suit your taste and technique. For me they are better than eagle's
feather.
And yes i agree with you dear Alami, we shouldn't promote killing of wild predacious free birds just for the feather or any other reason. therefore i
join my voice to yours. And asure you that nobody would ever think of going to nature and camp for just a feather of an eagle. Not to mention that
eagle's feather is taken from only one or two species of those birds, normally this feather grows in the birds neck. People usually hunt those birds
to train them on hunting, which is a wrold sport, very much known in the arab world. And those birds, are particularly extremely expensive due to
their rarity.
So guys, try other things, try the buffallo risha and forget about the eagles, after all it too hard for anyone to catch an eagle.
And no dear buffallo, i wish i had a heard of buffallos in my garden, i would have given a risha for each one of you. 
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damascene_oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 143
Registered: 4-28-2007
Location: Damascus
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oh guys just remembered something about rishas,
once i was walking in the narrow winding alleys of old town Damascus when i came across the old shop of the late Mr. Mohammed Haddad (very famous oud
professor in Damascus) i had known him since long time then. I went to his very interesting old shop, which was like heaven to me, and i would forget
everything in the world and get lost, amongst rare old ouds for Nahhat and others, rare music sheets...and his oud playing.
I entered his shop and he was sitting listening to Oum Kolsoum. He nodded to me to sit down (very old wooden chair carrying the burden of many years
of use), i sat down without saying a word, not even a hiss.
As the song finished, he started to praise the paralleled singing of Oum Kolsoum and her heavinly voice and stunning performance. Then i noticed an
old oud sitting next to him, he answered my question that this was an old nahhat our dating back to 1920's, i asked him to play something for me on
it.
He took the oud (which was fascinating in terms of shape and design) and started searching for something, i asked him what about he was looking for,
he said his risha. After he lost hope of finding a risha among the neatly laid chaos of dusty items in his shop, he looked around and asked me to hand
over to him a match box that was close to me. He took it, tore the outside cover of the matchbox, and folded maybe 3 times and made it almost 1 c.m
wide.
He grabbed it, and said: "i feel like playing this song for Oum Kolsoum"
and with the Nahhat Oud and this most unusuly risha he played "Ya Zalemni".
The only thing i could do, is to sit there, with my mouth open, totally dazzled at two things: one, how stunning his playing was, second: how
fascinting his playing was using such kind of very premitive risha.
As he finished, i told him that this is really amazing how can one use anything to play oud with. He said: "Habibi, an outsider can never produce any
kind of art if he doesn't have the talent, even if he uses the most expensive sable painting brushes, but a real artist can create masterpieces using
anything in his very talented hand even a piece of charcoal" then he esued his saying by an old arabic proverb, roughly translates into: "A sword
takes its power from the hand holding it".
He was one of a kind...god rest his soul.
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
Registered: 8-15-2003
Location: Sweden
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John, the Iraqi styled risha is made of of the ¨Rachis¨ part of the Retrice feathers (the primaries) and not the ¨calamus¨section which is called
for ¨Quill¨. The ¨calamus¨section is hollowed and not suitable for risha but this is the sections we use for writing instrument since the hollow
sections function as a reservoir for the ink and the end is easy to shape. The technique for making a writing instrument is completely different the
technique used for rishas and we do not use the same part of the feather but the common thing is that we use the same feathers of the bird; the
Retrice feathers. Thought the swan and goose feathers were the preferred for ¨writing pens¨ but some predator birds feathers were also used. The
Retrice feathers are the strongest feathers on a bird and predator birds have the strongest ones among all bird species. The Rachis part is shaped as
a semi circle and after splitting it in two sections along its shaft one keep the section that has flat side. When splitting the shaft is essential
that one doesn’t remove all the soft white dried remains of the pulp which strengthen the risha after it has been stored in olive oil. It takes
approximately 6 months for the oliv oil to penetrate the ¨white pulp¨ and it changes color during the process from white to light brown. If you
remove the ¨white pulp¨ you end up with a risha that is very fragile and there is no purpose to store it in oliv oil since the oil nor soften or
strengthen the keratin. Thought, oliv oil is good for the flexibility of horn rishas but it depends also of the quality/texture of the horn.
| Quote: | Originally posted by jdowning
How are the eagle feathers prepared for use as rishas - apart from soaking in olive oil? I imagine that the end of the quill must be pared or cut down
(like making a quill pen?) - but how is this done exactly?
The use of eagle feathers is, I understand, traditional but what is special about these feathers - are they of particularly large size (and from what
part of the wing of what particular species of eagle)? Or is the use of eagle feathers possibly just a romantic idea - like the oud strings made from
the intestines of a young lion quoted in early Arabic texts? Has anyone tried other kinds of bird feathers? I ask because I have a flock of domestic
geese on my farm and at this time of year they are moulting (naturally discarding their feathers) - so there are large wing feathers lying about all
over the place going to waste. I would be willing to experiment with these feathers if others with more experience in these matters than I think that
this might be a viable alternative source for making rishas. |
Best wishes
Ronny
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
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Thanks for the information Ronny - also as domestic geese do not fly (very much or far) their feathers, I imagine, are likely much weaker compared to
those of soaring birds like eagles.
Whatever happened to eagle talons though - these were supposed to be the best for rishas in earlier times?
Regards
John
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1031
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dear damascene_oud, thanks for sharing that lovely story with us about your interesting experience in the old shop of Mr. Mohammed Haddad, and how he
took a part of a matchbox cover to use for a risha. Besides oud, I also play guitar, and there have been times in the past when I didn't have a guitar
pick at hand and I did the same thing, taking a piece of matchbox cover ( that's when I used to smoke and always had a matchbox with me!) and folding
it until it was stiff enough to play with. There is a lot of wisdom for us in the example of Mr. Mohammed Haddad, and also what Lee Varis has said in
this interesting thread, that "in the end I don't think the material is as important as the technique used". It's still interesting to read what
others have commented and what we are using for rishas.
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Benjamin
Oud Junkie
Posts: 225
Registered: 7-23-2006
Location: Paris, France
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Very interesting thread, I myself spend three hours yesterday night to sand down some plastic you use to tigh electric cables so as to make a risha,
as I'm not satisfied from the two first one I made myself on the same way. And dear Damascene_oud your story gave me incentive to go on playing oud
today instead of trying to find the perfect risha and to go on for another new risha.. Maybe the perfect risha is like the perfect woman (or man if
you are a woman like Marina ;-) ), you can dream about it but you should deal with what you have..
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
Registered: 8-15-2003
Location: Sweden
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John, I have tried goose feathers and as you stated they are more fragile and the part you need for a correct risha in the Iraqi style that I
described, then are the goose feathers insufficient in many aspects. I have noticed that historians of medieval plectrums for lutes and other plucked
instruments when they reconstruct medieval plectrums use the Calamus section (quill) which is the part that is more or less cylindrical and also comes
without the remains of the pulp! Therefore a plectrum made of this part has a tendency to be rather fragile. I wonder whether the Iraqi risha
technique were more widely spread in the past and today is a forgotten ¨ancient art¨ . Well, I have never tried eagle talons and I don’t think
I will.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
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Location: Sweden
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"in the end I don't think the material is as important as the technique used"
What a simplification, the technique depends off course on the material why else the variations in materials for risha and risha techniques? I recall
Munir Bashir complaining the last years his struggle to find eagle risha and believe me the majority of players searching for their ¨perfect risha¨
fitting their technique have not developed a neither personal technique nor expression. You have to settle your mind when they are no short cuts to be
a good oud player.
Best wishes
Ronny
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damascene_oud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 143
Registered: 4-28-2007
Location: Damascus
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Mood: Obssessed by oud
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Yes dear Matthew i totally agree with Lee Varis has said here. It's not the risha but the hand that holding it. I ahve seen people playing oud with
the most elaborate and rare eagle's feather, but i wasn't impressed at all.
And have seen people playing oud using a piece of matchbox, i was totally stunned to their play.
And good you have quit smoking Matthew, that's the best part in this whole story. 
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
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Mood: No Mood
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An interesting thread.
I was trying to remember where I had heard the reference to eagle talons being used. I seem to remember that the kind gentleman in Cairo who tried to
introduce me to the art of oud playing in 10 minutes(!)- after I had purchased my oud - mentioned the use of eagle talons. On further checking my
files I find that it apparently was Ziryab, at the court of Khalif Harun (died 809) who introduced a plectrum of eagle's talon instead of that of wood
which had formerly been used (ref. H.G. Farmer - Studies in Oriental Musical Instruments, Civic Press, Glasgow, 1939). So a 'matchbox' risha is likely
more ancient and historically correct than those made from modern materials.
Thank goodness eagle talons are no longer in vogue!
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Ronny Andersson
Oud Junkie
Posts: 724
Registered: 8-15-2003
Location: Sweden
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Thanks for refreshing my memory John, actually the traditional plectrum for the saz was made of the innerbark of cherry and was stored in oliv oil
but I dont know if there is any source about whether the wood plectrum was made of the innerbark or sap/heartwood.
Best wishes
Ronny
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abusin
Oud Junkie
Posts: 442
Registered: 3-23-2006
Location: Manchester England
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Mood: Ya Fuadi La Tasal
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Hi Ronny,
So it is right (this perfec risha obssesion or myth, have even troubled the masters?) "I recall Munir Bashir complaining the last years his struggle
to find eagle risha"
I just find it fursrating, when you play and you don't like the sound straight away you blame it on the risha, and some times I use the same risha and
it goes perfectly well.. so what is the mystry here?
This is why I decided trying the eagle feather just to see if it will make sparks fly and a little genie appears and take over the taqsim to another
level
also as I mentioned above I will try the porcupine quill, as its similar to feather shaft in structure and may be in contents?
anyway its furustration in simple terms
best regards,
Awad
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Brynley
Oud Addict
Posts: 30
Registered: 2-6-2004
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Mood: very positive
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I,m in agreement to leave the Eagles alone, most times I would think the eagle would be killed to obtain the feathers. Most wild animals in the world
are in danger of extinction these days,(unlike in earlier times) and it seems the rarer an animal gets, the more demand there is for it,s body parts.
Lets help keep these animals around for our grandchildren to admire, and find other risha matierials to play our music with.
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