Lintfree
Oud Junkie
Posts: 171
Registered: 2-9-2007
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Selling a Sandii with case.
Okay now. I bought this Sandii oud with a case and now I'm selling it at a big discount; not because it's defective or bad. It sounds great and plays
great. I'm selling it because Sandii is offering an electric oud that is a direct "copy" of the Najarian electric. Some people may think it's okay to
rip off a design but I don't. Viken is a good friend of mine. So I can't have this thing in the house and it's for sale. It's the Lark in the Morning
top-of-the-line "special model" that sells for about $1200. It sounds great in Arabic tuning but with a short Turkish scale. "$700. with case.
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hamed
Oud Junkie
Posts: 295
Registered: 1-18-2005
Location: Seattle, Washington
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I am interested. is it the model with the long fingerboard?
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edisoned
Oud Lover
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Registered: 10-4-2007
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Selling a Sandii with case.
Any photo's available?
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Of course you're free to do as you like, but it seems to me that all traditional oud designs are very similar, and all living luthiers (including
Viken) 'copied' their designs from other luthiers.
It seems to me that the primary way that luthiers distinguish themselves is by the quality of their work, not by superficial design elements.
I like Viken, I own two ouds by him. But I don't see Sandi as harming him in any way. I also think that both Viken and Sandi's electric ouds are way
overpriced.
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Monty88
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 8-15-2004
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I actually saw several electric ouds copying the najarian design when I was in Istanbul 2 years ago. Many shops sold them, and I remember plugging one
into an amplifyer. The jack socket was poorly fitted, and the actual pickup and preamp were really bad, lots of crackling and things rattling around.
Complete crap.
I played one of them in Sandi's shop, it had machine heads though, like on a cumbus. I guess they are trying to copy, but not doing a great job of it.
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Lintfree
Oud Junkie
Posts: 171
Registered: 2-9-2007
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It's not the model with the extended fingerboard. I'll post some pictures in a few days.
And it's not the fact that the electric Sandii is making is just a version of an existing makers work like a Nahat or a Manol; those guys are dead. A
lot of borrowing of bracing and fingerboard construction and pegbox angle and things like that go on among oudmakers and that's fine, that's expected.
But you notice that among oudmakers they NEVER directly copy a pickguard and try to stay away from copying someone else's bridge designs. Everyone
copies Manol's work, but he's dead and it's a tribute kind of thing. This is different and especially for me since I bought this Sandii oud and Viken
is making me an incredible oud and here I have an instrument made by the guy that is copying Viken's design and offering it for sale through a U.S.
dealer, Lark in the Morning.
Those other guys who copied that design aren't doing that. And of course Viken's design is better made and sounds better and is the original but I
just don't want this thing in the house so I'm selling it. It's a great instrument. Sandii's accoustic ouds are
great instruments, don't get me wrong. And I hear Sandii is a nice guy. He just went for it. For me it's just a matter of respect and self respect and
it's personal. D.L.
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Lintfree
Oud Junkie
Posts: 171
Registered: 2-9-2007
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The other thing about this is that Viken's design is patented and copywritten. There are a lot of places where those kinds of things mean nothing;
China for one. It's like someone writes a song and another person comes along after hearing the song and presents the same song as being theirs. So
write a piece of music, take some time to get it right, perfect the thing and I'll copy it and offer it for sale. Sound like a deal?
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Lintfree
Oud Junkie
Posts: 171
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The Sandii is sold. D.L.
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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Mood: Stringish
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That's really a poor analogy, D.L.
A better one is, you record a well-known song, say 'purple haze', and tell people it's yours. No one believes you, and everyone likes Hendrix's
version better anyway.
My point is, a good instrument maker's calling card is his skill--that an instrument made by his hands is unique and anyone who tries to copy it will
produce something inferior. So a good maker needn't worry about anyone copying his designs--his will always be superior anyway, and customers will
realize that.
I like Viken, he seems like a really nice guy. In all my dealings with him, he's been very helpful and friendly. I wish him the best, and if he
really has a patent on his design, it should be simple enough to get Lark to stop carrying the Sandi copy, at least.
I guess I just don't see what's so special about Viken's design, it doesn't strike me as notably original or unique. It's approximately what anyone
would have come up with if they were trying to make an electric oud.
by the way, it's "copyRIGHT" and "copyRIGHTED". It's about your right to copy, and has nothing to do with writing.
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Lintfree
Oud Junkie
Posts: 171
Registered: 2-9-2007
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Sorry about the mis-spelling of copywriting but I was a bit angry. You know how that goes. But you're right about it being a poor analigy, steeling
the song and passing it ouf as one's own composation. Here's a better one; You're eating a plate of spaghetti and meatballs and you bite into one
meatball and discover that it's actually a turdlette, a small turd. Do you keep on eating because it's supposed to be spaghetti and meatballs or do
you stop and spit it out?
It's a little crude but it does illustrate a pint. So it's okay to copy someone else's design because it's not particularly original or unique? That's
lovely. I know, I know, I'm being phocetious but what is one supposed to do when one is confronted with a plate of spaghetti and meatballs? It's been
really fun. Lintfree
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palestine48
Oud Junkie
Posts: 448
Registered: 6-9-2004
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my intuition says i shouldnt get involved but i find this debate somewhat interesting although i find the turd analagy confusing and gross ( IM NOT
DISRESPECTING YOU LINTFREE, I SEE YOUR PERSPECTIVE).
anyways i just bought an epiphone les paul, which is essentially a les paul "copy" by gibson. if any instrumental design was to be protected it
should certainly be that and i beleive theres history on the steps gibson tried to take to stop it and lost.
regardless , it seems when it comes to instruments sound is priority so regardless what the instrument looks like, its sound and quality is probably
what will add to its value than just aesthetics alone so i guess that kind of goes wiith what brian says.
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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Mood: Loving my oud
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Epiphone is owned by Gibson so that's why they can use the LP shape. Back in the 70's you had a lot of companies (Love, Tokai, Ibanez, etc.) doing
exact copies of les pauls, rickenbackers, strats, and everything else.
Gibson does pursue companies for making exact copies of the Les Paul shape. You'll notice most companies outside of Epiphone will change the cutaway
or lower horn shape to make it 'different'. There are still a lot of fakes coming out of china, however. You can usually spot them by discrepancies
in headstock design, binding, or logo though.
I think if he wants to sell it it's no big deal. I don't think anyone would confuse the Sandi w/ a Najarian unless they're much more similar than I
remember
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