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journeyman
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question about oud masters
Now that I can play some simple tunes on the oud and have a feel for some of the very basic elements, I would like to listen deeply to and transcribe
some of the playing of some oud masters. In jazz, there are a small number of artists that almost every serious musician studies and copies at some
point as part of the learning process, and I expect that the Arabic musical tradition is similar. I know that we all have our favourite players on the
oud, but who are the ones, if I had to pick two or three, to really study? I am talking about the players who have really helped define the musical
vocabulary as well as the techniques of the oud. I can guess at some of the names, but would like to hear from someone who has really gone through
this process.
Peace to all,
Roy Patterson
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Jameel
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What school do you like?
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dubai244
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hi !
Dear journey,
1. Munir Bashir (Iraqi
2. Omar Munir Bashir (Iraqi - Munir's son)
3. Naseer Shamma (Iraqi)
4. Simon Shaheen (Palestinian i guess)
I suggest to listen to each one of these players music carefully speacially munir, because i learn alot from him and even my style in playing oud
similar to him.
Munir has his own music and these music are very good for study and learn from it.
Best Luck
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Brian Prunka
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Hi Roy,
I don't know if I can say I've "gone through" the process, but I'll say I'm "going through" it. 
Riad al-Sounbati, Farid el-Atrache, and Mohamed el-Qassabji are all regarded as great players in the traditional Arab style. As far as living
musicians in the traditional style, Simon Shaheen is a great player IMO. People tend to disagree about the living, though . . .
The Iraqi players have a different style; Munir Bachir is recognized as a great player by pretty much everyone, it seems.
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Ronny Andersson
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>The Iraqi players have a different style; >Munir Bachir is recognized as a great >player by pretty much everyone, it >seems.
Indeed true Brian and is wise to listen more to other than the Bashir's and Shamma from Iraq when they are to much related to each other. Is
better to care about the more traditional players from Iraq that are unfortunately playing in the shadows of the mentioned.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Brian Prunka
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Ronny, I'm not sure what you mean . . . are you recommending other Iraqi players besides Bachir and Shamma? If so, who are they and where can we
find their recordings? The only other players from Iraq I've really heard are Selim al-Nur and Ahmed Mukhtar . . . love that jurjunah
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dubai244
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Hi .....!
I was searching vey hard to find oud player that i can learn from him and i am sorry to tell you that i didnt find some body like munir, naseer and
Simon.
There is one of very famous player in iraq his name is ( Salem AbdulKareem), But there is very few recordes for him and his style is not very clear
like Basher's or Naseer.
As result, if you search for oud players in ARAB WORLD, which you can LEARN from them, you will find Max 10 players, who are really good to study.
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David Parfitt
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Hi Ronny
Looking forward to hearing your recommendations on the more traditional Iraqi oud players that you mentioned.
In the meantime, I would like to add to Brian's list with Rahim al-Haj, Asim al-Chalabi and Fawzy al-Aiedy. Then from the previous generation I
guess there is Jamil Bashir, Salman Shukur, Ghanim Haddad, Mu'ataz al-Bayati, Ali Emam, but it seems to be very hard to find recordings of these
guys!
Best wishes
David
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Zulkarnain
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Hi David
What type of Oud you use? Arabic, Turkish, Iraqi etc.? Is it possible for you to post some images of your oud here?
Regards
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David Parfitt
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Hi Zul
I'm afraid I only have a cheap mass-produced instrument - as far as I know it was made in Syria and it looks more like a Turkish-style oud. There
is a picture of it on my website on the 'about me' page:
http://website.lineone.net/~david.parfitt/aboutme.html
Believe me, you do not want to see it too close up!
I definitely plan to get a better instrument in the near future, but it will probably have to wait until I next travel to the Middle East (I am going
to Iran in a few weeks, but I don't know if this is the best place for me to buy an oud - I am planning a trip to Syria/Lebanon in the next year
or so, and I will probably wait until then). I am a bit nervous about getting an oud via mail order as I think I would like to try it out and see what
it sounds like before buying it. (However, saying that, a lot of people seem to be very pleased with the 'Nile Shop' Shehata ouds.)
Best wishes
David
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Zulkarnain
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David...I will email u about Iran...I got a fren from Kuala Lumpur who work there...he help me with Oud stuff while there too...
Later
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Jameel
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Richard Hankey recommends Mohammed Arafati in Iran. He told me that his ouds are some of best built and sounding ouds he has come across. I
wouldn't mind having one myself, but how to get one??
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Mike
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Hey Professor David,
Wow, I didn't know you were that young! Very cool page that tells about yourself my friend. It's good to know a little bit about each other
I think, and I am glad to finally have put the face to the name.
Jameel, I remember Doc O. telling me about Mr. Arafati before too. His ouds looks excellent, and it looks like he uses the recessed fingerboard
method!
Take care,
Mike
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David Parfitt
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Hi Jameel/Mike
Richard gave me Mohammed Arafati's address in Tehran some time ago, and hopefully I will get a chance to check it out. I am not sure how much one
of his ouds would cost though. By the way, are the photos above from Richard?
I really only visited music shops in Isfahan while I was in Iran last time, and did not see any instrument makers or bazaars. The shops seemed to be
very similar to those that I had seen in Istanbul, for example. There was a huge range of traditional (tars rather then ouds) and Western instruments,
and the quality seemed to be very high (the shops stocked a number of instruments from top-name makers, as well as beginner's instruments).
Nothing was particularly cheap, though, and prices were all in rials and dollars! This is only based on my very limited experience in one city, so I
don't want to generalise - I should imagine that it would be better to get an oud direct from the maker. There seems to be no problem bringing
instruments out of the country either - last time I came back with a tar and setar, and customs did not pay any attention to them.
I would say that if you ever get the chance to go to Iran, grab it with both hands!! Most of the world looks pretty much the same nowadays, and
it's great to find a place that's so different. The people really do go out of their way to make you feel welcome or help you out, and there
is none of the hassle that you get as a Westerner in other parts of the Middle East or Asia.
Best wishes
David
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Ronny Andersson
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>There seems to be no problem bringing >instruments out of the country either - >last time I came back with a tar and >setar, and customs
did not pay any >attention to them.
Is not a problem to bring instruments to Europe from Iran - only to USA is a problem.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Ronny Andersson
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David Parfitt
Looking forward to hearing your recommendations on the more traditional Iraqi oud players that you mentioned.
David |
I really can't give any recommendations when there are only obscure cassettes and also because to hear the differences one need to know a lot
about Iraqi music tradition and be a classical trained musician. But some differencies are obvious like Bashir and Shamma - compare their
taqsims.
Best wishes
Ronny
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Zulkarnain
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Hi Ronny
Can you tell me more about this "obscure cassettes"? Regarding Bashir Vs Shamma, IMO the Bashirs play more melodically than Shamma-Omar
approach is more agressive than his father and Shamma remind me alot of Steve Vai on the electric Guitar!
Salam
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wfspark
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New oud
| Quote: | Originally posted by David Parfitt
Hi Zul
I'm afraid I only have a cheap mass-produced instrument - as far as I know it was made in Syria and it looks more like a Turkish-style oud. There
is a picture of it on my website on the 'about me' page:
http://website.lineone.net/~david.parfitt/aboutme.html
Believe me, you do not want to see it too close up!
I definitely plan to get a better instrument in the near future, but it will probably have to wait until I next travel to the Middle East (I am going
to Iran in a few weeks, but I don't know if this is the best place for me to buy an oud - I am planning a trip to Syria/Lebanon in the next year
or so, and I will probably wait until then). I am a bit nervous about getting an oud via mail order as I think I would like to try it out and see what
it sounds like before buying it. (However, saying that, a lot of people seem to be very pleased with the 'Nile Shop' Shehata ouds.)
Best wishes
David |
Hello David. Have you thought about getting Eraydin's ouds? You get more for your money when
bying an Eraydin. Email me at wfspark@yahoo.com or wfspark@hotmail for questions. His ouds start at $119.
William F. Sparks
PS If you got the money, you won't have to wait!
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nadir
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If anyone has any additional information about Arafati, please e-mail me! I'm curious about who this person is!
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
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Hi William
Haluk Eraydin's ouds do seem excellent value for money and I have heard a lot of good reports about them. However, I will probably go for an
Arabic-style oud rather than a Turkish-style instrument. (I must say I like the look of the Arafati ouds above too!)
Best wishes
David
P.S. Ronny, I don't understand the problem with bringing Iranian instruments to the US. As far as I know, you can't fly direct from Iran to
the US, so you will have to go via Europe anyway, for example. As long as you can bring the oud into Europe, who cares where it came from when you
take it from Europe to the US?
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Dr. Oud
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David -
Mohammed Arafati's ouds were $600 USD in Tehran in 2002. They are worth 2 or 3 times that in my opinion. You cannot imagine how easy they are to
play and the tone! He makes many styles, big Arabic, small Turkish, long and narrow (his arthritic special), they all sound and play fantastic. He
learned from his father-inlaw, who made ouds in Iraq before moving to Iran. The line goes back 2 or 3 generations, I believe. Arafati runs a real
estate business daytime and makes ouds in the evening and weekends, producing about 1 a month.
Jameel found the pictures, but I've got them now.
The US Customs considers instruments from Iran to be contraband, but after an hour of pleading they relented. I bought a santur from Dairoush Saleri,
the best maker today, also for $600. It's very, very nice. I bought the santur before I found Arafati, in fact Saleri told me about him. By this
time we were at the end of our visa and out of money, so no oud for me on that trip, maybe next year, enchallah.
Go to Iran if you can. The people are unbelievably friendly, the food is fantastic. No processed or fast food, everything is fresh and delicious. The
sights are amazing, new $400,000 (USD!) high-rise apartments across the street from mud brick houses 1,000 years old. The Shah's palace with
floors of agate! In Shiraz the monument to Hafez (5th century poet) is unlike anything I've ever seen. Don't forget Persepolis (Taks Jamshid
= Jamshid's bed), 5 acres under one roof! Then the mongols burnt it down, oh well. The parks in Tehran are big and beautiful, with statues and
monuments of poets, not generals or even kings; poets! Every pharmacy has a resident medical doctor who will prescribe drugs for your affliction.
Many shop owners would not accept my money, but made gifts to me of my purchases, amazing!
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mavrothis
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Iran really sounds great, I keep hearing and reading great things about the people. I've also heard a lot about the richness of their poetry. I
wish I could read and understand Farsi just to get a glimpse of their art for myself.
The fact that there are great ouds there makes it even more tempting.
mav
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billkilpatrick
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i don't know if this relates to the original question or not but "oud masters" would seem to imply someone from a middle eastern or
north african musical tradition. is there anyone outside this tradition - possibly in the jazz or early music tradition - who has mastered the
oud?
i suppose the real question is whether you think the oud will always sound arabic no matter what is played on it or by whom?
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journeyman
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Hi Billkilpatric,
I'll try to explain my reference to "oud masters." In every musical tradition there have been musicians who have been responsible
for creating and defining the resources within it. This happens on a technical and conceptual level, with the technique developing out of the concept.
In the jazz tradition for example, any serious study and practice of the music almost always includes a study of certain historical figures who have
defined the various developments and innovations in the music. These people would include Charlie Parker, John Coltrane and Miles Davis, to name a few
pillars. So when I use the term "masters," I'm not only referring to great players, but rather, to those players who's work is
crucial to study in order to develop an understanding, conceptual and technical, of a particular instrument and the vocabulary associated with it,
within any musical tradition. From there, one can begin to innovate and develop a personal voice or style. This is especially important in musical
traditions where improvisation is a major component of the music. A good illustration of this, in my humble opinion, is Anouar Brahem, who knows a
tremendous amount about the Arabic tradition but has developed a personal voice and sound on the oud, and the ability to perform with musicians from
other traditions in a very organic way. When I listen to Adel Salameh's playing, I also hear a tremendous depth of tradition, but also an
original style and personal voice on the oud.
This is in line with my own philosophy as a musician. The other approaches, which I am less attracted to, represent an adherance to tradition to the
point where the music becomes antiquainted, or where there is an attempt to bypass the tradition in an attempt to create something new. The results of
the latter are almost always shallow.
The one name that has come up on this forum and suggested from other good oud players that I have spoken to about this is Riad al-Sounbati. I know
that it is also important to study Farid el-Atrache and Munir Bachir as well. I love the playing of all these masters. Riad al-Sounbati for the
feeling, Farid el-Atrache for his fire and Munir bachir for his melodic invention and courage. Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
Metta,
Roy
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billkilpatrick
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i have one cd of anouar brahem's called "le chat noir" (i used to have two but like an idiot, i leant it to someone and haven't
seen either since). i agree with you on your choice of him. the others i haven't heard of but life is long and it's only money.
what i hope the oud will become is a world class instrument, adaptable to all types of music and not just some ethnic oddity used to
"flavor" certain tunes. i don't know if this is possible but to give you an idea, there's a local blues band looking for a
bassist and it crossed my mind to have a go with the oud. (this ain't gonna' happen, by the way as they're about 20 years younger than
me and i find blues standards sung with an italian accent difficult to take.)
i sing some hank williams songs with oud accompaniment but it's more for my own amusement - amusement being the operative word - than proper
music.
early music is a good candidiate for oud "mastery" as it fits in historically and blends in well with the other medieval and renaissance
instruments. most of what i've heard, however, amounts to little snatches of oud here and there - nothing definitive. a group called "the
dufay collective" has a very good oud player named giles lewin but i don't know if he can be called a "master" - yet. he uses gut
strings, i think and produces a subdued but very intensive sound. (check them out on the http://www.magnatune.com/genres/classical/ site.)
a dopo - bill
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