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billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
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Mood: what?
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spuds, spuds, spuds
not ouds, ouds:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpfYt7vRHuY
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gilgamesh
Oud Junkie
Posts: 206
Registered: 10-4-2007
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Mood: in the mood
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incredible and at the end , they will do a soup with their instrument?
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excentrik
Oud Junkie
Posts: 291
Registered: 5-19-2004
Location: Refugee Status...
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ok. not to get "political" (and I know how much some of you all hate me for this....:mad but come on... what a perfect example of western excess. starving refugees (all around the world) would trek a hundred miles for food in
that quantity (and by the looks of it, there was around 30-40 kilos of food being "played with") and if you break that down... thats a lot of food. i
repeat: FOOD.
gimme a (expletive removed) break 
tarik
p.s. hooray for those who will (no doubt) disagree- take your privilege for granted, it's ultimately your loss.
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Greg
Administrator
Posts: 928
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Location: Brisbane, Australia
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Seems like a lot of vegetables, a lot of "musicians" and a lot of recording techniques to deliver a very small musical result.
Take a look and listen to what one real musician can do with a single carrot (and a looping pedal) http://www.linseypollak.com/video-carrot.html
Whilst you're there, take a look around Linsey's website. A remarkable man (and a long-time acquaintance).
Here's a link to an mp3 of another of his own instruments http://www.linseypollak.com/mp3s/clarini.mp3 (right click and save target as)
Linsey is also a member of Ross Daly's Labyrinth-Australia.
http://www.rossdalymusic.com/ongoing.htm
Regards,
Greg
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Brian Prunka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 2939
Registered: 1-30-2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY
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I wonder if that's an organic carrot 
to be fair, he's not just using a carrot, the mouthpiece/ligature/reed is a pretty significant part of the instrument. Still very impressive. I
wonder how much of a difference the funnel makes.
The musician in the other video made an instrument (seemed basically like a recorder) with nothing but a carrot, which I find impressive. Linsey is
much more musical, for sure.
And while Tarik is absolutely right about how wasteful it is, the reality is that that food was never going to help any refugees anywhere in the
world, no matter what. If no one bought it, it would rot and be thrown out or (hopefully, at least) composted.
And at least vegetables are a renewable resource, much more so than exotic hardwoods that instruments are usually made from; no animals were harmed
(drum skins, hide glue, tendons, gut), and no metals were mined and processed. On the other hand, they have to make all new instruments for each
performance instead of having instruments that last years. And it does seem like a gimmick, since they're basically imitating instruments commonly
made with wood and other durable materials.
They do in fact make a soup at the end of the performance, though it's not clear that they use the instruments on which they performed (I would guess
not--in the US, at least, it would probably violate the health code).
This does certainly highlight the reality of western prosperity vs. the poverty in many areas of the world, but it's misleading to present this as a
zero-sum situation. If these people stopped making vegetable instruments this instant, it would not help even one person in the entire world. It
would just make the disparity a tiny, tiny bit less visible. In the end, it's more helpful to discuss ways to help the disadvantaged than to complain
about the excesses of the privileged.
Maybe it would be helpful to write to those folks and suggest that they donate money from their concerts to charities that help refugees or something,
to offset the 'waste' of food that goes into their performances.
here's a link to their 'contact' page. maybe everyone should send them a message about it. you could also post a message on their youtube pages.
contact
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excentrik
Oud Junkie
Posts: 291
Registered: 5-19-2004
Location: Refugee Status...
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Mood: Now Here, Nowhere...
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hey brian-
thanks for addressing my concerns- I really appreciate it and I truly agree with you- there is NO point in simply complaining about it, perhaps this
post can create some sort of a movement here for the plight of the under-represented and oppressed, who most often have very little food.
thanks brother- thanks for not ignoring these extremely important issues. one love
tarik
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Jameel
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1672
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To round out their ensemble, these guys need a "foud". 
I've worked in an American chain restaurant. For those who haven't, copious amounts of food are trashed everyday. Regrettably, I personally threw away
many many untouched meals. I always felt guilty about that. My father always echos the words of his university anthropology professor when this
subject comes up--its not that there isn't enough food, the problem is getting it to the people who need it.
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Jason
Oud Junkie
Posts: 734
Registered: 9-17-2005
Location: Louisville, KY
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Mood: Loving my oud
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Yes definitely. All food isn't created equal either. There are large disparities in the amount of land and resources used for something like cattle
compared to something like soybeans and oats. The world could be hunger free if we could ever find a way to truly work together.
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
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Mood: Happy
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| Quote: | | p.s. hooray for those who will (no doubt) disagree- take your privilege for granted, it's ultimately your loss. |
I usually don't like to get involved in discussions like this, but here goes.
Just to state some FACTS:
- The United States government is the largest giver of assistance to all foreign nations.
- United States Aid for International Development (USAID) is a U.S. Government Agency in charge of donating BILLIONS of U.S. taxpayer dollars per year
to foreign countries.
- Since 1945 the U.S. government has donated TRILLIONS of dollars to foreign countries. This amount is equal to our current national debt.
- During the height of the Cold War, the U.S. was donating millions of pounds of food to Russia so the Russians wouldn't starve and invade other
nations.
- After the Tsunami in Indonesia, the United States Navy sent an entire carrier battle group to offer food and medical aid to the victims. Indonesia
is the most populous Muslim nation on earth. I only state this because many of the fanatics claim the United States is at war with Islam. The more
enlightened understand that this is totally not true.
- Over the last two years, the U.S. has donated over 10 Billion dollars to Pakistan.
- The United States donates over 200 million dollars a year to Afghanistan. This money buys food and medical supplies to an impoverished nation, and
it is their largest source of income.
- In 1988 when a devastating earthquake struck Iran, the first search and rescue teams were from America.
- When Christian Serbs butchered the Muslim Kosivar Albanians, the United States invaded the country and drove back the Serbs to protect the Muslim
Kosivars. The United States Army is still there assisting in the disbursement of food, medical care, and safety.
- The following countries (alphabetical order) receive Billions of dollars in food assistance from the United States and would likely starve without
this generosity: Afghanistan, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iraq, Pakistan, Palestine, Somalia, and Sudan.
- The United States provides over 25% of the world's medicines, much of it donated free to the developing world.
- Over 65 cents of every dollar spent by the United Nations comes from the United States of America.
It is true, and indeed very sad, that much of the world still starves. Let's be real though. The true reason is not because of the "excesses" of the
Western world, but moreso because of corrupt regimes and the mismanagement of the resources offered to them by the Western world.
All of the above statistics do not include the private donations from U.S. citizens. Private U.S. citizens donate more money per year than every other
nations' private citizen donations combined.
There IS something we all can do. There are countless organizations such as the Red Cross, UNICEF, OXFAM, Feed the Children, etc. etc. who have
websites online that you can donate to via credit card. By the way, all of these organizations were started by the "Western World".
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ALAMI
Oud Junkie
Posts: 645
Registered: 12-14-2006
Location: Beirut
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Thanks Mike for the infos, I love numbers.
God ! I wasn't aware that good conscience has become so expensive.
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gilgamesh
Oud Junkie
Posts: 206
Registered: 10-4-2007
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Mood: in the mood
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The human creativity is amazing and Linsey Pollak has taken me to travel in a melancholy trip with a simple carrot!
Now I know how is the carrot's cry ,Greg, I understand and I enjoy even more carrots and I will never eat one more
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David Parfitt
Oud Junkie
Posts: 629
Registered: 11-16-2003
Location: Devon, UK
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Mood: No Mood
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"The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution. "
Paul Cezanne
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zalzal
Oud Junkie
Posts: 747
Registered: 12-9-2005
Location: Nîmes France
Member Is Offline
Mood: still alive
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Just some explanations on expensive good conscience
- The United States government is the largest giver of assistance to all foreign nations.
PORPORTIONALLY TO THE GNP, NOT THAT MUCH COMPARED TO SAY SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES,
- United States Aid for International Development (USAID) is a U.S. Government Agency in charge of donating BILLIONS of U.S. taxpayer dollars per year
to foreign countries.
DEPENDING ON GEOSTRATEGICAL INTEREST OF THE COUNTRY DECIDED BY PENTAGON
- Since 1945 the U.S. government has donated TRILLIONS of dollars to foreign countries. This amount is equal to our current national debt.
MAINLY AS MILITARY AID. CURRENT INTERNAL DEBT IS THE NEOLIBERAL WRONG TESIS OF DEVELOPING INTERNAL CONSUMPTION WITH DEBT
- During the height of the Cold War, the U.S. was donating millions of pounds of food to Russia so the Russians wouldn't starve and invade other
nations.
RATHER SUBSIDIZING US MONSTRUOUS AND EXTENSIVE AGRICULTURE HUGE MOTORIZED FARMS USING TRILLION TONS OF CHEMICALS FERTILIZERS...PRODUCED BY US AND
NORTH CHEMICAL FIRMS,
- After the Tsunami in Indonesia, the United States Navy sent an entire carrier battle group to offer food and medical aid to the victims. Indonesia
is the most populous Muslim nation on earth. I only state this because many of the fanatics claim the United States is at war with Islam. The more
enlightened understand that this is totally not true.
HISTORY TELLS US NOW THE VERY RESPONSABILITY OF CIA HELPING SUHARTO CRIMINAL DICTATORSHIP WHO DIVERTED BILLIONS OF DOLLARS. THE NATIONAL DEBT IN
INDONESIA IS SO HIGH THAT A COLLAPSE REIMBOURSING THIS DEBT COULD BE DISASTROUS. SO KEEP PEOPLE ALIFE JUST THEY KEEP PAYING.
AFTER TSUNAMI THE DEBT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CANCELLED. IT IS NOT.
OF COURSE UNITED STATES IT IS NOT AT WAR AGAINST ISLAM. IT IS A MINORITY OF FANATICS ILLUMINATED EXTREME RIGHT PEOPLE CONTROLLING WHITE HOUSE AND
PENTAGONE WHO IS AT WAR AGAINST ANOTHER MINORIT OF FANATICS ILLUMINATED EXTREME RIGHT EXTREMIST CLAIMING TO BE ISLAMIC PEOPLE.
THE MAJORITY OF US PEOPLE IS NOT AT WAR AGAINS PEOPLE OF ISLAM, NOR THEY ARE AGAINST PEOPLE OF US.
- Over the last two years, the U.S. has donated over 10 Billion dollars to Pakistan.
BIG STRATEGICAL ALLY OF US FOR PIPELINES, PETROL IN THE REGION, AN EYE ON INDIA, ETC. AND A DICTATORSHIP
- The United States donates over 200 million dollars a year to Afghanistan. This money buys food and medical supplies to an impoverished nation, and
it is their largest source of income.
AND KEEPS A FRIEND OF PETROL MULTIONATIONAL MR KARZAI IN GOUVERNEMENT. AFGANISTAN IS ESSENTIAL FOR BRINGING CENTRAL ASIAN GAZ AND PETROL SURELY. SAME
GOALS AS RUSSIANS, WHO FAILED.
- In 1988 when a devastating earthquake struck Iran, the first search and rescue teams were from America.
WASN'T 98 ?. OK THANK YOU. THE ACTUAL PRESSURE ON IRAN (A PETROL SWIMMING POOL) CONTINUES IN SPITE OF NO NUCLEAR PROGRAM AS CONFIRMED BY US
INTELLIGENCE SERVICE ITSELF. (BY THE WAY I THINK THE HISTORICAL CITY OF BAM, A HUMAN TREASURE OF CULTURE IS STILL AWAITING FUNDS TO BE RECONSTRUCTED,
AS WELL AS VICTIMS TO BE REHOUSED).
- When Christian Serbs butchered the Muslim Kosivar Albanians, the United States invaded the country and drove back the Serbs to protect the Muslim
Kosivars. The United States Army is still there assisting in the disbursement of food, medical care, and safety.
WASN'T IT THE NATO, OF COURSE LEADERED BY US?? ALSO AN STRATEGICAL PLACE, WITH SOME INTERESTING MINES. AND A WAY TO STOP RUSSIAN INFLUENCE.
- The following countries (alphabetical order) receive Billions of dollars in food assistance from the United States and would likely starve without
this generosity: Afghanistan, Djibouti, Egypt, Ethiopia, Indonesia, Iraq, Pakistan, Palestine, Somalia, and Sudan.
THE MAJORITY OF THEM ARE DESTROYED BY WAR. ALL OF THEM ARE FUNDAMENTAL TO US GUVERNEMENT GEOSTRATEGICAL INTEREST.
- The United States provides over 25% of the world's medicines, much of it donated free to the developing world.
AND HELPING BIG CHEMICAL MULTINATIONALS BY THE WAY. WITHOUT FORGETTING THAT SIMPLE DIARRHOEAS WHO COULD BE HEALED BY SIMPLE MEDECINS STILL KILSS
HUNDRED THOUSANDS. RESEARCH AND DEVELOPPEMENT SUBSIDES TO FIGHT AGAINST SIDA, YELLOW FEVER, AND OTHER TROPICAL PANDEMIES ARE RIDICULOUS COMPARED TO
ANTIDEPPRESSORS, CALMANTS, OBESITY MEDICINS WHICH THEY CAN BE PURCHASED BY MAINLY RICH PEOPLE IN THE NORTH.
- Over 65 cents of every dollar spent by the United Nations comes from the United States of America.
DELAYS OF PAYMENTS AND THREATS OF STOPPING PAYMENTS ARE USUALS. A WAY TO LEAVE CLEAR WHO IS THE BOSS AND IMPOSE THEIR VIEWS.
It is true, and indeed very sad, that much of the world still starves. Let's be real though. The true reason is not because of the "excesses" of the
Western world, but moreso because of corrupt regimes and the mismanagement of the resources offered to them by the Western world.
THINGS ARE MORE COMPLICATED. THERE NEVER SHOULD BE ONE ONLY TRUE REASON (MANICHEISM). CORRUPT REGIMES (A MINORITY CORRUPTED PEOPLE OPPRESSING A
MAJORITY) CAN NOT EXISTS WITHOUT CORRUPTORS (GENERALLY MULTINATIONALS, BANKS AND POLITICIANS EXPECTING THE RETURN OF SOME DIVERTED MONNIES TO
SUBSIDIZE THEIR POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS TO STAY IN POWER (AT LEAST THIS IS THE CASE IN FRANCE). RESSOURCES OFFERED TO THEM BY WESTERN WORLD ??? UMHH. DID
YOU KNOW THAT SINCE 85 THE REIMBOURSEMENT OF DEBT FM THIRD COUNTRIES, FM SOUTH TO NORTH, IS EQUAL, IN CONSTANT DOLLARS, TO ONE PLAN MARSHALL PER
YEAR??. YES SOUTH IS SENDING MORE MONIES TO NORTH THAN IT RECEIVES ON AID, LOANS ETC ETC.
All of the above statistics do not include the private donations from U.S. citizens. Private U.S. citizens donate more money per year than every other
nations' private citizen donations combined.
WELL THE RIGHT OF EVERY PERSON TO HEALTH, EDUCATION, CULTURE, FOOD, HOUSING, POLITICAL AND RELIGIOUS AND ECONOMIC RIGHTS IS NOT A CHARITY PRIVATE
MATTER. IT IS A MATTER OF JUSTICE AND HUMANITY. NOT FORGETTING THE BIG PUBLIC IMAGE BENEFITS FEEDING BACK AND THE REDUCTION GRANTED ON TAXES.
There IS something we all can do. There are countless organizations such as the Red Cross, UNICEF, OXFAM, Feed the Children, etc. etc. who have
websites online that you can donate to via credit card. By the way, all of these organizations were started by the "Western World".
MANY THINGS CAN BE SAID ON HUMANITARIAN ACTION. IT IS COMPLEX.
MY GUIDANCE IS JUSTICE. NO JUSTICE NO PEACE, UNFORTUNATELY IS A CONSTANT OF HISTORY. JUST KEEP IT IN MIND. I WOULD NOT STRESS ON THE ORIGIN. DID YOU
KNOW THAT 120 BILLIONS DOLLARS HAVE BEEN SENT LAST YEAR BY SOUTH IMMIGRANTS IN THE NORTH TO THEIR SOUTH RELATIVES. THIS IS 4 TIMES THE AID MONIES
(WHICH SHRINKED FM 50 TO 30 BILLIONS DOLLARS IN RECENT YEARS). THESE MONIES SENT BY IMMIGRANTS WORKERS ARE FAR MORE EFFICIENT ON LOCAL DEVELOPMENT
PRJETCS THAN MANY OF THE MEGA HUMANITARIAN PROJECTS.
THE ABOVE FOR INFO PURPOSES ONLY.
MIKE, THE READING WHICH I DO ON STATISTICS, FACTS AND FIGURES WHICH I HAVE IS NOT THE SAME AS YOU DO. I AM JUST EXPOSING A CONTRADICTORY VIEW TO WHAT
YOU SAID
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Mr. T
Oud Admirer
Posts: 1
Registered: 12-5-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bad
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Don't make me mad...
Fool!
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gilgamesh
Oud Junkie
Posts: 206
Registered: 10-4-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: in the mood
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| Quote: | Originally posted by David Parfitt
"The day is coming when a single carrot, freshly observed, will set off a revolution. "
Paul Cezanne |
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gilgamesh
Oud Junkie
Posts: 206
Registered: 10-4-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: in the mood
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I thought I was in a OUD forum ? 
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eliot
Oud Junkie
Posts: 252
Registered: 1-5-2005
Location: The Gorges
Member Is Offline
Mood: Aksak
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I'd like to echo what Jameel said - the biggest problem is not production but distribution.
An interesting article came up a few days ago about Malawi...
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/02/world/africa/02malawi.html
They ignored "Expert opinions" and decided to pursue fertilizer, newer seeds, and local agriculture rather than the unsuccessful strategy of
soliciting the unreliable UN and international organizations for actual food shipments (which were subject to considerable distribution problems). Now
they're exporting food to other countries in Africa...
Zalzal, I appreciate critical views on the effectiveness of American aid, but just wanted to point out that you make a lot of logically
problematic arguments. I, too, would love to see America behave in a different manner in the international arena, but also believe that credit needs
to be given where it's due, and that critique is most useful when it doesn't rely on comparisons to non-existent phenomenon.
| Quote: |
- The United States donates over 200 million dollars a year to Afghanistan. This money buys food and medical supplies to an impoverished nation, and
it is their largest source of income.
AND KEEPS A FRIEND OF PETROL MULTIONATIONAL MR KARZAI IN GOUVERNEMENT. AFGANISTAN IS ESSENTIAL FOR BRINGING CENTRAL ASIAN GAZ AND PETROL SURELY. SAME
GOALS AS RUSSIANS, WHO FAILED. |
It's not that what you write is untrue. It's that if the US didn't give aid then there would be another random criteria for criticism. Thus, by your
logic there is no criteria by which the US could be seen as having provided any benefit anywhere in the world. If the US provides aid obviously there
is a conspiracy involved. If they don't, they're mean.
There has never been a time in history, anywhere, when a large amount of aid was simply provided in order to do good, with no expectations of some
gain or reward, whether it be political benefits, alliances, or future anticipated rewards. Certainly the French can't be lauded as an example of
endless selfless charity.
| Quote: | - The United States government is the largest giver of assistance to all foreign nations.
PORPORTIONALLY TO THE GNP, NOT THAT MUCH COMPARED TO SAY SCANDINAVIAN COUNTRIES |
It's not helpful to invent random new criteria with which to change the terms of judgment. If I receive a Ghadaban oud as a gift from someone, and
then learn they're a multi-billionaire, I still received the oud as a gift and can be thankful of it whether or not that billionaire could have
afforded to buy me that $600,000 gold-plated oud that was on ebay a few months back. When was "proportional to the GNP" accepted as the universal
measure of the quantity and effectiveness of aid?
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ALAMI
Oud Junkie
Posts: 645
Registered: 12-14-2006
Location: Beirut
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Please welcome our newest member mr T.
It is the first time I see a oud like this:
2 bowls ....wow..... how many (inter)course ?
FAQ is all you need...... to get started
If you need restoration we have a lot of brains among our members
If you have a buzzing problem it could be a nut problem (no offense) or the neck
High tension is not good unless you like bending necks, it will lead to high action......some like it.
Do you play Turkish or Arabic ? (again no offense)
"Maqam of the month", "Strings issues","Do you prefer single hole or 3 holes ?"....well.... they are not exactly what you have in mind, and NO: Hijaz
Kar Kurd is not a martial art.
If you have questions or an opinion we are all here to help you but a better way to improve is to find your path by yourself, I will reveal to you an
initiatic transcendental secret :
Just send a u2u to yourself then try to find the answer, when you have it send it back by u2u to yourself and so on.
Welcome and Keep up the good work
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jdowning
Oud Junkie
Posts: 3485
Registered: 8-2-2006
Location: Ontario, Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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I'm with you gilgamesh.
Anyway, what is wrong with carrots?
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Hi Zalzal,
Like I said, I was just stating some facts...except for the last few parapraphs. You're free to spin it as you like.
Best,
Mike
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zalzal
Oud Junkie
Posts: 747
Registered: 12-9-2005
Location: Nîmes France
Member Is Offline
Mood: still alive
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Thank you Mike.
Here i am Mr T.
And by the way let us watch this clip, not "foud" related...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JtVZhaZp6Ng
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Good stuff Zalzal. I would have liked it better though if that young man was wearing a Lakers jersey?
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MatthewW
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1031
Registered: 11-5-2006
Location: right here
Member Is Offline
Mood: Al Salam
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what a cool instrument that young man is playing! shows what you can do with even one string and some funky music. hey Mike,speaking of jerseys, you
think we might be seeing some 'MikeOuds' jerseys and T-shirts going on sale one day bud?
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Mike
Super Administrator
Posts: 1568
Registered: 12-3-2002
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Happy
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Somebody should let....
...the U.S. gov't know we found Mr. T!
Not a bad idea Matthew. I remember way back when, Wassim used to have Farid el-Atrache.com t-shirts! No joke...
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billkilpatrick
Oud Junkie
Posts: 563
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: what?
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here you go ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rjr_XAn2MNk&feature=related
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