cossak
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 1-7-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
raki keyf song - help with armenian refrain
hoping that an armenian speaker could help...
a keyf-time tune sung by markos melkon called galata'da todoraki -
what is special is that the refrain of this turkish sone is :
ela 'do - come over...greek
(spoken -hortego) ?
ven aqui - ladino (spanish spoken by ottoman jews originally tossed out of
christian spain in 1493)
icemuz raki - turkish - let's drink raki!
if an armenian speaker could confirm what ...hor te go (sounds like) means i would much appreciate it!
ps. the rendering of this song from turkish on the 'armenians on 8th ave' cd by crossroads was mangled as the translator failed to recognize either
the greek or spanish thus missing the point!
what is special about the song is that it is one of the only songs i have ever heard which reflects the multi-ethnic nature of the raki drinking
population of the eastern mediterranean as it once was...
i would upload the mp3 for your pleasure - do i just attach it to a post? pls. explain...
|
|
|
Jonathan
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1582
Registered: 7-27-2004
Location: Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Cossak--If you get a chance--can you post the rest of the lyrics?
The only Armenian I hear in the song are Markos "hos egoor"s which just means "come here"
Hos egoor.
Great great song. Marko is one of my all time favorites. His taksims are killer.
I would love to know all of the lyrics
|
|
|
cossak
Oud Admirer
Posts: 3
Registered: 1-7-2008
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
jonathan,
i was half hoping it would be you replying! this is costa, with the kazanjian oud from the bronx...
marko is certainly an all time favorite player and vocalist of mine as well! unfortunately the only armenian in the song is hos egoor - i didn't mean
to mislead...but i wanted to be sure that ela do, ven aqui and hos egoor all mean the same thing! thodoraki, vasilaki and yannaki are all diminutives
of thodoris, vasilis and yannis. for those of you who don't know, (but care) Galata is a neighborhood right at the bridge separating the old city
of istanbul from the old european quarter of Pera (turkish Beyoglu)
here are the correct lyrics:
galata'da todoraki thodoraki in galata
beyoglu'nda vasilaki 2x vasilaki in beyoglou
doldur doldur ver yanaki fill it up and let me have it yannaki
bak benim halime see my situation
axx kupayi Oh Glass! (of raki)
ela do Come here! (in greek, armenian, ladino)
hos egoor
ven aqui
icemuz raki (and) let's drink raki
galata'nin yolu yonca the road to galata is clover
memeler benzer torunca 2x breasts are like oranges (!!!)
anasi gul kiz gonca the mother's a rose and the daughter's a bud
that's it!
costa
|
|
|
Jonathan
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1582
Registered: 7-27-2004
Location: Los Angeles
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
thanks a lot! I've wanted those lyrics for a long time.
|
|
|
Amos
Oud Junkie
Posts: 405
Registered: 3-26-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
this is a great thread...i love marko too and this song is one of my favorites!
amos
Our music is like an ocean...
|
|
|
Andy
Oud Junkie
Posts: 314
Registered: 10-5-2004
Location: MA
Member Is Offline
Mood: excellent
|
|
This is well appreciated, Marko Melkon is among my favorites too.
|
|
|
quantum
Oud Admirer
Posts: 1
Registered: 1-27-2013
Member Is Offline
|
|
I must correct some mistakes:
'Memeler benzer turunca' (not torunca)
Turunç: Bitter orange. ('ç' is pronunced as 'ch' in Turkish)
Regards...
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
also what is "icemuz" is that correct turkish.
i dont speak turkish but ive picked some up from internet language websites...shouldn't lets drink raki be icelim raki
google search of word icemuz comes up with nothing
|
|
|
reminore
Oud Junkie
Posts: 108
Registered: 10-30-2010
Location: Binghamton, NY
Member Is Offline
|
|
torunca is just written phonetically as it is sung - the word is turunc - it is persian originally...
icemuz is just dialectical for içemiz - let us drink, from the verb içmek...1rst person pl. imperative - pretty obscure!
don't forget - this is sung be an armenian istanbulite - in the early years of the 20th century, non muslims made up the majority of the population
in istanbul, and oftentimes their turkish was marked by a less that perfect accent...one can hear this accent spoken on the streets even today by
anatolian immigrants...
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
this website claims there is no such thing as a first person plural imperative. http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish_lesson_72
rennimore are you a turkish speaker? just say the word and i'll believe you.
also i am familiar with the "armenian accent" in turkish, being armenian of anatolian descent but i had not seen the word "icemiz" either.
by the way, marko melkon was actually from smyrna not istanbul, though of course the song talks about the neighborhoods of istanbul.
another thing armenians do...armenian americans retain the ottoman pronunciation of turkish. for example we ALWAYS say "aferim" instead of "aferin"
and just the other day my mom was shocked to learn that the current name of the city is istanbul and not istambul.
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
also i was not aware constantinople was a majority christian city. i do know that was the case in smyrna thus leading to its nickname of gavur izmir.
if im correct armenians were the largest christian group in constantinople. so the armenians made up a plurality of the population? thats amazing to
me.
|
|
|
John Erlich
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1470
Registered: 8-26-2004
Location: California, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Oud-Obsessed
|
|
"The population of Constantinople in 1920 was variously estimated between 800,000 and 1,200,000 inhabitants; the Ottomans had collected population
claims from the various religious bodies. The uncertainty in the figure reflects the inaccuracy of the method, disagreements as to the boundaries of
the city, and above all the uncounted population of war refugees. Half or less were Muslim, the remainder being largely Greek Orthodox, Armenian
Orthodox, and Jewish; there had been a substantial Western European population before the war.[12]" -from the "Occupation of Constantinople" entry in
Wikipedia
|
|
|
reminore
Oud Junkie
Posts: 108
Registered: 10-30-2010
Location: Binghamton, NY
Member Is Offline
|
|
i'm not a native turkish speaker...i'm of greek background-but lived there for years in the early 90's as a journalist. i know ottoman, and speak
the turkish of 1960 perhaps...not the super affected 'ozturkce' (turkish purified of its arabic and persian vocabulary, with newly created verbs and
nouns from turkic central asian dialects)...why would i write all this and not be a turkish speaker in the first place?
as far as 'icemuz'....i don't care what any website says - i have heard, 'hayde, icemuz bir raki', or, ' c'mon, let have a glass of raki at least
half a million times in the back streets of pera...
hartun, your mother's surprise is understandable. i've heard the city called and written 'istambol' and even 'islambol'.
as far as the population question - yes, roughly half the population of the city was non-muslim. of these, the majority were ottoman greeks...it was
a very different city from what is is today. i have met any number of working class old istanbulites who speak greek fluently. today these people are
no longer alive...
to get back to the music - at one point, the language of the world of 'entertainment', (music, luthiers, taverns, meyhane and later gazinos) was
almost exclusively greek...even today (although they are dying out) elderly cabinetmakers, instrument makers and craftsmen generally will refer to
their 'usta', or master of bygone years with respect and a bit of awe. invariably, these are almost always a yorgi usta, mihal usta, kirkor usta -
either armenian or greek.
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
reminore,
thank you. i should have said "fluent" or "conversational" rather than native. i just wanted to know you werent some american who picked up a bit of
turkish in learning our music (like me!).
of course i know that the craftsmen and especially restraunt and gazino owners were greek in those days. im very familiar with the history, just i
didnt know that particular population statistic. armenians (such as myself) were also prominent in crafts although i dont think we owned any
restaurants. just like in detroit area where i live that business is completely in the hands of the greeks. and of course the musicians were all
armenian or greek or jewish or gypsies. then they came to america and continued the same. our armenian bands in the us still play the istanbul songs
of the early 1900s, thats the music we love, of course it is sung in turkish which causes major conflict with the armenians who came from lebanon in
the 70s.
thank you for the clarification on the lyrics.
harry
|
|
|
reminore
Oud Junkie
Posts: 108
Registered: 10-30-2010
Location: Binghamton, NY
Member Is Offline
|
|
conflict maybe, but everybody of a certain age seems to sing along to karun karun at a keyf, no?
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
karun karun is one of the few songs that crossover to both groups of armenians. it originated in lebanese armenian pop music of the 70s (adiss
harmandian), the traditional bands in the US liked the tune and picked it up. its so overplayed its become a cliche. but yeah there is still conflict
over music....the newer immigrants that came since the 70s want to hear what we call "disco armenian" "continental" etc. they call traditional style
"dunga-dunga music" imitating the sound of the oud. and thats not a term of endearment.
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
and the armenian intelligentsia (self proclaimed) who are also from lebanon dont help - to many of them its the music of the turk, the mortal enemy.
so the music with oud, clarinet, violin, dumbeg is attacked on the popular level and the official level. but it has survived in the US, with the
exception of Los Angeles. it survived because people my parents and grandparents generation (1st and 2nd gen american born) cant stand the disco
style, they expect to hear an oud and clarinet so they can do their line dances. it will be interesting to see what will happen when the current
generation comes into its own in the next 20 years.
|
|
|
reminore
Oud Junkie
Posts: 108
Registered: 10-30-2010
Location: Binghamton, NY
Member Is Offline
|
|
what a nightmare! i have heard endless nightmare stories from my friend harold hagopian!
|
|
|
hartun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 220
Registered: 12-26-2012
Location: Detroit, Michigan
Member Is Offline
|
|
well he would certainly know!
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
