OudandTabla
Oud Maniac
Posts: 81
Registered: 2-21-2008
Location: Eugene, OR
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Mood: Oud-a-licious
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Flat backed Oud?
Hi everyone,
I've built several acoustic guitars, and in planning my first Oud, I am thinking of going for a flat back design, like Bilezekjian.
http://www.dantzrecords.com/flatbackoud.html
This will of course deny me the pleasure of attempting the bowl- the most intriguing part- but I will definitely tackle that someday. I teach and
perform a lot, and have always had posture issues with the huge bowl back as I am rather lanky.
Any ideas about the neck body join, peghead shape, or general advice/comments? I think I'm starting on this one in March, so let me know.
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aytayfun
Oud Junkie
Posts: 201
Registered: 1-28-2006
Location: Türkiye
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Mood: luthier and player
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Hi OudandTabla
I know that Ali Nisadir at Istanbul making ouds with flat back design and selling them to Germany. You can contact him.
http://www.udmaker.com/
Dr. Tayfun AYDIN
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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Mood: Mahoor
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Hey JH,
I have also thought about making a flatback and did some experiments with a turkish saz and a persian tanboor. None sounded as good as I thought they
would (even though the geometric air volume was pretty good but I think it boils down to the dome geometry). They sound pretty "flat" like a guitar.
Don't get me wrong, they are very fun to play and handle nicely. But I think the extra effort into making a bowl is worth it. You can make the bowl
shallow for ergonomics reasons. Anyway, the 'joint area' shape I used is from a turkish flat back (electric) oud (from ebay) which I attached the
picture of. The neck block is trapozoidal and as you see the sides and the small back plate connect to it. Hope this is clear.
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 7-22-2005
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And this is the flatback saz I made about a year ago. It shows the joint area a little better.
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OudandTabla
Oud Maniac
Posts: 81
Registered: 2-21-2008
Location: Eugene, OR
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Mood: Oud-a-licious
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Wow, thanks for the suggestion peyman. I was thinking of a joint based on the A-style mandolin way- where the neck block essentially continues the
contours of the sides and resolves the curve. I think I like your idea better as it might provide better access to the notes up to and on the
soundboard.
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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Mood: Mahoor
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No problem. I think this shape follows the contours of the instrument more naturally and lets you adjust to the neck thickness etc. It's also easier
to build  which is always a pluse.
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OudandTabla
Oud Maniac
Posts: 81
Registered: 2-21-2008
Location: Eugene, OR
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Mood: Oud-a-licious
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By the way, nice work on that saz! I like the inlay a lot. What wood is that on the fretboard? And are those sides ash?
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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The sides are quartersawn red oak! Very easy to bend. The fretboard is cocobolo. I still need to shellac the top. The inlay is mother of pearl dots in
a square of horn framed with bone! It took me about 3 hours to fit everything.
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OudandTabla
Oud Maniac
Posts: 81
Registered: 2-21-2008
Location: Eugene, OR
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Mood: Oud-a-licious
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Wow, oak, who'd a thought? Maybe I'll use it for the flat-back Oud...
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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Mood: Mahoor
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I have seen oak used in guitars (for the sides not the back) and ouds. You need something harder for the back of the flatback, IMHO.
BTW, when I said it took me 3 hours, I didn't mean the whole instrument. I only referred to the inlay! The whole thing took about 2 weeks, on and off
working.
cheers,
peyman
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carpenter
Oud Junkie
Posts: 248
Registered: 8-30-2005
Location: Eugene OR
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Mood: brimming with hope
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<< oak, who'd a thought? >>
Not me! Although - I remember hearing that red oak is porous, white oak's got some kind of closed-cell structure. If you make a barrel out of white
oak, you're good; if you used red oak, you'd end up with an empty barrel and a wet floor.
I have no idea whatsoever if, or how, that relates to sound and instruments; I'm just saying.
If anybody's got oak-instrument experience, I, for one, would like to hear it. I like the quartersawn fleck look; my granny had a Mission plant stand
that was a gorgeous thing, with the quartersawn bits flickering in the sunshine. It'd make a cool-lookin' oud bowl, that's for sure. And I agree -
bends like a dream.
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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Actually, this is where I got the idea: http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/sevy/luthierie/guitarmaking_guide/...
(mulberry back with oak sides).
At mmif there are discussions about oak too. Nazih Ghadban makes ouds from oak. Quality (with rays and figures) quartsawn oak is abundant and I think
would be good for experiments or a first instrument. I plan to start a flatback oud soon too, at least to see what they sound like...
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OudandTabla
Oud Maniac
Posts: 81
Registered: 2-21-2008
Location: Eugene, OR
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Wow, that is a neat site- great pictures and a different construction technique from the Cumpiano/Natelson... very informative. I really like the
flecks in that oak too. Can't wait to see your flat-back Oud Peyman- you'll probably beat me, as I need to finish my first oud and a guitar for a
friend before I even start!!
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Haluk
Oud Junkie
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Registered: 2-6-2004
Location: Aydin-Turkey
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Mood: oud and saz producer
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This is my flat back oud both acoustic and electric:
http://www.mikeouds.com/messageboard/viewthread.php?tid=7353
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Peyman
Oud Junkie
Posts: 496
Registered: 7-22-2005
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Mood: Mahoor
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I think you're overestimating my skills Josh!
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