jkndrkn
Oud Addict
Posts: 37
Registered: 9-6-2009
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
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Mood: No Mood
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Cellist/Bassist Looking to Learn the Oud
Hello all.
I stumbled into the world of Arabic music indirectly by first hearing wonderful music from Mali played on western six-string electric and acoustic
guitars by the bands Terakaft and Tinariwen and later the musician Ali Fark Toure. I loved the ornamentation of the melodies and the depth of feeling
to be found in the harmonically simple but melodically rich music.
My first experience with the Oud was during this summer at a music even in Portland, Oregon. We stumbled into a concert by an Andalusian fusion group
that featured prominently an instrument that I took to be a lute until I noticed that it was fretless and extremely expressive. Since then, I've been
on the lookout for great solo recordings of Oud players and have been considering purchasing an Oud.
Some questions:
1. I am a cellist and I also play fretless bass, so I feel that I have a pretty good ear. However, I do have a classically trained western ear. Even
so, how hard will it be for me to learn maqamat?
2. Being a cellist and bassist, I am drawn to the lower registers of the Oud. I remember reading that Arabic-style Oud are tuned slightly lower, but
everywhere I look online, it seems that the smaller Turkish Ouds are more common. Will one generally have to pay more for these larger and
deeper-sounding Ouds?
3. I'm looking for a quality beginner's instrument that will not cost too much, will sound good, and will be easy for me to maintain. What sellers or
sites do you recommend?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
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Mood: m'Oudy
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Welcome, Earthling, you have come to the right place!
I'm the talkative one, so I'll give you the full Cliff's Notes version.
1- Maqamat in the simplest terms are scales with specific intervals PLUS a body of conventions. A dozen or so basic tetrachords are permuted into
40-50 Maqam(at) (pl.). A typical Maqam uses an upper and a lower tetrachord. There are great materials on the 'net like:
http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/theory.html
http://www.maqamworld.com/
If you can play cello, you can learn these. For instance Nahawand is like our ascending harmonic C minor scale.
http://www.oud.eclipse.co.uk/nihawand.html
Some Maqamat use 1/4 or finer divisions of the tone. Some Maqamat use different ascending and descending intervals. No big deal.
The modulation system is based on the idea of starting in a given Maqam, then advancing around a pivot note like the dominant to enter another Maqam,
or just switching out the upper tetrachord of the home Maqam, to be working in another, then back, und so weiter, and so forth. Really it's not very
different from the Western (Baroque) harmonic system, where you might pivot on a note common to two scales, and modulate e.g. from G major to land in
D major via the Tonic, or through relative minor E to E Major. Except here you might modulate from Rast in C to Bayati in D. The harder thing is the
body of custom that surrounds each Maqam, and it's debatable how much any Westerner can truly internalize. But let's not overdramatize. There is a lot
of material to listen to, and this is a great starting place. Always check the "Today's Posts".
2. No - Turkish and Arabic ouds are priced similarly. Yes, Arabics are tuned 1 note lower and sound deeper, and they likely are better suited to your
taste. Also some are strung with 6 courses with a bass string, others only the top 5, so guess which you want?
3. Decent ouds start around $350, but it's easier to get a good one around $1000 as the under $500 price point is full of risky propositions. You
might pay $300 for a lucky find, or $360 for a gala tourist ornament nailed together from monsoon flotsam in Pakistan, sent out in a particle-board
sarcophagus of a "hard case", and hailed as "truly a beautiful instrument", so it's not easy for you to know what is what. Lesson number one:
ALL ouds are beautiful, as they help the balance of trade. If you can readily spare $1000, or especially $1500, there are many
expedient ways to relieve your itch in the Buy/Sell section of this forum. Otherwise, I humbly suggest you take your time and do a lot of reading,
this site and others, and look around for instruments to try. No substitute for a lot of YouTube (search on "oud") and as much hands-on as your
location allows. Trade-offs. For instance, Antarctica, though tranquil, is not conducive to trying out ouds, while Southern Lebanon is.
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littleseb
Oud Junkie
Posts: 224
Registered: 10-14-2008
Location: london - uk
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Mood: high
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I'm a clasically trained cellist too, and it helped me when I first started playing the oud. The tension between the fingers is quite similar, and to
have a basic understanding of music is very helpful.
Oud and Cello - what a great combo!!
Good luck!
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jkndrkn
Oud Addict
Posts: 37
Registered: 9-6-2009
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
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Mood: No Mood
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Hey, thank you for your kind reply. I'm very glad to have stumbled onto this active community of Oud lovers.
Ah. Was not aware that sellers used YouTube as a way to advertise their instruments. Makes sense. I live in a small town in USA so availability of
non-western instruments is very poor (though the Banjo is very popular here and is actually an instrument of African descent). I'll have to make do
with the internet.
With regard to locating Arabic Ouds, what are the best keywords to use when searching? I've seen Arabic, Syrian, Iraqi, and Egyptian being used to
describe these instruments with Iraqi Ouds seeming to be constructed in a slightly different fashion. Which of these is the deep-tuned Arabic
instrument? I guess the safest bet would be to ask on a case-by-case basis if the instrument is designed for a deeper sound?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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I meant mainly that you could learn a lot from listening to oud music on YouTube, but yes, there are instruments for sale advertised on YouTube as
well. Ebay is where most of the mail order action is. There are a lot of "wall ouds" there, i.e. meant as decoration, but sold to the unsuspecting as
musical instruments. And then there are the $200 "Standard Arabic" ouds that are imported by MidEast Manufacturing, nobody here is 100% sure just how
bad they are, but probably pretty bad. If you can afford it, the best way is to buy from a reputable luthier, that's what I meant by the $1000-$1500
ouds. If that's too high for you, you have to look for someone re-selling their first oud, or you can get a midrange oud like the Gawharet El Fans
that Arabic Instruments sells on e-bay or direct, or try your luck with the various unknowns on auction on e-bay, some are passable. The Gawharet El
Fans are Egyptian and are sold in the $350-550 range,
http://www.arabinstruments.com/
This vendor is not the cheapest, but you're buying from someone who knows what they're selling and is reputable.
Any Sukar is re better than a Gawharet El Fan, but generally sell for more. Sukar is Syrian, and he's designed a standard that just works. If
you want to just leap with the fewest headaches, just get any Sukar, that's the shortcut to a very good Arabic oud that isn't outrageously priced,
like this one:
http://www.arabinstruments.com/112730/Oud-By-Ibrahim-Sukar-CAT-1190
or this one, a little less fancy in finish, but generally just as good.
http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-RARE-PRO-BROWN-WALNUT-ZAN-WOODS-SUKAR-OUD-M...
But you really need to spend a few days just reading past posts on this forum if you want to have some idea of what you're doing and what experiences
people have had with what vendors, and when.
There's no such thing as designed for deeper sound. There's Arabic and Turkish, and some subtypes of each. Turkish ouds are a little smaller and sound
brighter, but they can be tuned Arabic, though not the other way around, due to excess string tension. 99.9% of ouds will take up to 12 strings. With
the exception of some rare "women's ouds", there are always 12 pegs, but the vendors usually ship them with 5 courses of whatever fishline they have
handy. What you want is 11 strings, 5 double courses and a single bass string. So if you get a decent Arabic, you buy an 11 string Arabic string set,
and you're done, though you might have to re-notch the nut for 6 courses, and since there are many ways to tune an oud, there are many string sets
optimized for different tunings. And an oud is fragile, they are made of light wood, say 3 lbs or less, so you can't just put any set of strings on
and tune it any way. It's very helpful if you grasp all the issues, and are handy with tools so you can make small repairs and mods, and you have to
know what and why, so again it's a VERY good idea to take your time and do a lot of reading before you buy. There's a sharp dividing line here between
the primo ouds made by top contemporary luthiers, the antiques, contemporary "pro ouds", and the low end. It's like any musical instrument. You have
to decide how much you're able to spend. It's hard, but not impossible, to get a good oud for under $500.
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jkndrkn
Oud Addict
Posts: 37
Registered: 9-6-2009
Location: Gainesville, FL, USA
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Mood: No Mood
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Thanks again fernandraynaud. I really do appreciate your help with these matters. I think I'll settle for an instrument in the $450-$500 range to make
sure I don't end up with a disappointing low-quality instrument.
I had actually run into http://www.arabinstruments.com/ myself and am glad to hear that it is a reputable seller. Is it due to the instrument's quality, or does the
fellow that demonstrates the instruments on that website have a hard time balancing the attack of his risha with the pressure of his left hand? I hear
quite a few hard buzzing notes lacking in clarity in his playing. Perhaps it is a problem with the microphone not being able to handle the transients
of these accented notes?
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fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
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It's just a camera mic, and he's not a virtuoso, but also the oud's wound strings are supposed to "buzz", a little like a sarod, it's not at all like
a guitar. That's what I mean, you need to get oriented. Check your U2U messages.
If you're in a hurry, you don't have a lot of options in the $450-500 range.
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Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
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Also check out Khalaf oud for strings... Jameel is awesome and will have them to you in no time... I saw you just got a Sukar... Congrats... I
seriously think they're the best oud for the money available on this continent.
Chris Walters
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