fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
|
|
My First SoundClip here: Nihawand Consolation
I'm a bit nervous in the presence of so many great oud players here! Although I have been studiously studying my Maqamat, this piece may not
be Arabic, but it's a short multi-track Taqsim. Comments and remarks are most welcome, I am especially curious how traditional Arabic musicians will
react to this, hence the name "Consolation" 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6DAUYlPZtM
Thank you for watching it! 
p.s. sorry, the original factory "fish line" strings were still on the Sukar that day.
|
|
|
davidg
Oud Addict
Posts: 45
Registered: 3-25-2005
Location: USA CA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Good playing brother...How did u get that sort of quality sound, it sounds amazing? Anyways, good luck in your studies and lets see some more
videos...
|
|
|
Christian1095
Oud Junkie
Posts: 454
Registered: 4-29-2008
Location: North Carolina, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Sounds awesome.... I thought you did a really good job of capturing the sound of your Sukar... Nicely played...
The oud and bass parts had me sitting here with my mouth open...
Chris Walters
|
|
|
David.B
Oud Junkie
Posts: 640
Registered: 9-5-2009
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: Renaissance
|
|
Great Tony !
What is interesting here is the texture. I think the bass steal the high-light of the oud, the bass effect is more emotional when it comes from the
oud itself... Bravo for the harpsichord, a really nice contrast (better than piano). The oud like an inside feeling of sadness during a magic moment
under a porch by seeing the rain falling representing by the crystalline sound of the harpsichord. It's closed to make my tears drop... Your Sukar
oud is still too "white", the sound will get richer in time, with good strings it will give a remarkable sound. I hope for more work with the
harpsichord 
|
|
|
Sazi
Oud Junkie
Posts: 786
Registered: 9-17-2007
Location: Behind my oud
Member Is Offline
Mood: مبتهج ; ))
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by David.B  | I think the bass steal the high-light of the oud,....
The oud like an inside feeling of sadness during a magic moment under a porch by seeing the rain falling representing by the crystalline sound of the
harpsichord. It's closed to make my tears drop... |
I have to agree with that...
Very nice sense of melancholy there, beautiful tones, lovely improvisational piece 
- if I had to be really picky all I could say is that the oud is sometimes overpowered due to mix decisions, but then levels are easily changed...
Looking forward to hearing more
|
|
|
Marina
Oud Junkie
Posts: 615
Registered: 9-1-2005
Location: Bosnia
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enthusiastic
|
|
|
|
|
fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
|
|
Sincere thank you for the compliments, I was feeling sad and your kind words made my day.
The Sukar sounded thin with those factory strings. Listen to the difference with new Mari strings, after coating the neck, french polishing the
soundboard, lowering the action a bit. This is the same oud recorded using the exact same mics and the same technique:
[file]11765[/file]
To answer the tech questions: The oud and harpsichord were both mic'ed in "stereo" with a Beyer MC 740 large diaphragm solid state mic in cardioid
mode, and an Oktava MKL 2500 large diaphragm tube mic, the two mounted in an X pattern. You can see the mics on the video, less than 1 foot from the
instrument. The factory strings on the oud were really terrible, so I made the best of it by adding a little delay, especially at the end of the
piece. On harpsichord the Oktava goes 5 inches over the bass strings, the Beyer 8 inches above the treble strings.
The preamps used were the in-line channels of my vintage Dynamix D3000 32x8x2 console (uses linear op amps, transformers) in one case, and a little
6x2 Behringer mixer in another. I don't hear a difference. "Vintage" by the way means either "venerable, very valuable" or "old junk", depending on
whether you're buying or selling said item.
I re-wired the Chinese 6 string fretless bass with a stereo jack, with 1 channel connected to the mag pickups, the other to piezos mounted under the
bridge; it was DI'd into the console using a pair of ART "Tube MP Project Series" preamps. The great all-around piezo pickups are these $2 Radio Shack
Piezo Transducers, they work great on Oud if you mount them well.
[file]11766[/file]
The Beyer 740 mic I've had for many years, and it's now an overpriced "Vintage" mic. The Russian tube (valve) Oktavas are excellent mics if you check
the electronics for grounding problems, better than the Beyer or other $2000 mics for most things, including oud. Word has gotten around and their
price climbed overnight from $100 to over $1500. They can sometimes still be found inexpensively, but there are now Chinese forged tube Oktavas
floating around. That's pretty crazy!
With today's software plug-ins, as long as the mic does not distort, you can make one mic sound like another, so it's more a matter of
technique than deep pockets. Not quite $10, but $100 can get you a good mic. If you don't have two good mics, you can pair your good mic with an old
one you might have lying around, at lower volume on the other channel, then even out with EQ, you can make everything sound much thicker. Any
instrument recording with two mics up close will sound better than with one, or a distant stereo pair. This makes an enormous difference.
The touches of YayliTambur samples was played on keyboard using Kontakt 2.
The A/D is a PCI bus Delta 1010LT, the recording software was Steinberg. The main dynamics processor was Steinberg's Magneto, it was used on the input
channels. The EQ was Steinberg's standard channel EQ. The reverb was Altiverb, which is a great software-only reverb.
A lot of bass had to be filtered off the audio track to prep the video for upload because many people use small speakers on YouTube, and with so much
energy in the (to them inaudible) low frequencies, to these viewers the overall volume would seem extremely low. That's a tricky balancing act, as
YouTube modifies both audio and video after the upload.
Here's an MP3 of this piece, if anybody wants it, it sounds better than on the video:
http://www.miloszinstitute.com/openftp/Niwahand1_018_128.mp3
re: these microphones:
http://www.oktava-online.com/mkl2500.htm
http://audioanalysis.co.nz/mics/mpcmics.htm (bottom of page)
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/22413/0/
|
|
|
David.B
Oud Junkie
Posts: 640
Registered: 9-5-2009
Location: France
Member Is Offline
Mood: Renaissance
|
|
Salut Tony,
Je suis en train d'écouter le mp3 : rien à voir le son !
|
|
|
fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
|
|
You prefer the old or the new timbre? 
Pardon the long-winded considerations, but I guess this is as good a spot as any to raise the following issues on improving the timbre. There's
something that's commonly called (much to the despair of some purists) the "mwah" (prononcé "moi") of a fretless bass. They also call this the "Jaco
factor", as Jaco Pastorius pioneered this sound. The oud has a more complex timbre than any bass, but one aspect of it is very similar to "Mwah".
The bass' "Mwah" is the desired sound of a well-set up fretless electric, as opposed to a "plunk". It's a sustaining sound that develops over a couple
of seconds as if you were working an analog synthesizer's low pass filter, or the human mouth pronouncing "Mwah". Jaco's bass was very often mistaken
for a wind instrument.
People have been trying to analyze Mwah, and how to increase it on fretless basses that are "Mwah-deficient". It appears that if the action is low
enough, the fingerboard smooth and hard enough, and the strings are wound, you get more Mwah. Jaco slathered epoxy on his fingerboard, and used the
dreaded fingerboard-devouring Rotosound steel-wound strings. If the action is higher, you lose the effect, and if lower, you get ugly "Buzz".
I believe there's a slow traveling wave, I think it qualifies as a "soliton", that "flaps" the string (which is vibrating at fundamental pitch) up and
down so it is moving towards and away from the fingerboard as the note develops. More high frequency harmonics are produced as the string moves in and
borders on outright buzzing, and that's how that gradually evolving "Mwah" component is generated. That's what I believe is happening on the bass, and
something similar happens on the oud. If the fingerboard is softer wood it absorbs high frequencies, and if the surface has enough little
ridges/hills/valleys, the string windings hit them, and this mutes the harmonics, and shortens the note's duration. Similarly, if the strings are
"dull", the fundamental dominates, and the sound is short. So by optimizing the string height, leveling and coating the fingerboard, with shiny new
wound strings, you can greatly optimize the sustain and increase the "mwah" factor, which is what the MP3 above shows. New strings and adjusting the
action are standard and common sense, so the coating is the deciding factor.
You can simulate some of the effect of coating/hardening your fingerboard by "fretting" with your fingernails, and some players use that technique.
Obviously, the timbre of the Sarod is greatly influenced by its smooth metal fingerboard, and the trick for coating a wooden fingerboard is a happy
medium that does not make the oud sound too bright (like a sarod), polymerized Tung Oil being my favorite. Sukar's ouds seem to use a specific bracing
scheme and overall design that creates a number of sharp peaks in resonance all over the spectrum. This would seem to logically make Sukars very
responsive to the effects of fingerboard coating.
The Arabic oud has another important timbre component, the beloved "deep Arabic" sound, and which I hear as a broad low midrange resonance with a sort
of "slapback" that might be due to reflections off the walls of the bowl. I wonder if anyone has experimented with polishing and shellac'ing the
inside of the bowl to see if a more reflective surface might enhance it.
Finally, if the various mechanical elements are well-coupled and vibrate together easily, a vibrato fingered in sync with that hypothetical traveling
wave can coax a very long sustain, which is felt as the whole oud vibrating like a purring cat, almost like an electric guitar held close to its
amplifier's speakers. It's like effortlessly pushing a child on a swing, in sync with the pendulum's motion.
It would be very interesting to try to investigate why an oud's sound undeniably changes, "opens up", the more it's played. I forget where I saw the
recommendation to break in an oud by playing "like an Egyptian upholsterer", advice I definitely try to live up to.
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
Musically wise I like what you did Tony..good job
on the oud level I suggest getting into the right way of holding the oud and the plectrum since this would have a major impact on your playing. Good
oud and plectrum positioning is highly important.A good example would be something like that:
http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&Vi...
|
|
|
fernandraynaud
Oud Junkie
Posts: 1865
Registered: 7-25-2009
Location: San Francisco, California
Member Is Offline
Mood: m'Oudy
|
|
Thanks, Suhail. My risha technique will improve over time I'm sure, but are you seriously suggesting to model it on a guy using a guitar flat pick
like in that video??
[file]11881[/file]
I rather doubt I will ever hold the oud quite vertical, I play all string instruments at an angle, looking at the fingerboard.
|
|
|
katakofka
Oud Junkie
Posts: 811
Registered: 1-24-2008
Location: Cleveland
Member Is Offline
Mood: Gypsy
|
|
not necessary a guitar pick, but since you are a guitar player a thin guitar picks works very well. The most important is the angle used to hit the
strings and the wrist work in that video.
|
|
|
tchandler
Oud Maniac
Posts: 63
Registered: 1-10-2006
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
well, my two cents is not to hold the risha like a guitar pick, but like a risha! Ultimately, whatever works, but I've always felt that there's that
extra slap from the risha that won't come from a guitar pick choke hold
tom
|
|
|
mrkmni
Oud Junkie
Posts: 393
Registered: 12-9-2007
Location: Ottawa/Canada
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Five Stars!
A little sad but the Oud added a huge impact.
Nowadays, Hollywood movies so often use Oud in their music...
Really success 100%..
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xmbprobrown/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
